Production Boats and the Limits - Page 21 - SailNet Community
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post #201 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009
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Brian,

Thanks for the link. Looks like a nice boat for its design intent. A couple of thousand lbs more disp/weight than I would like, a little too little draft by 1-2'.........

BUT, now I am talking about my needs and wants vs someone elses. If this was a style of boat I wanted, it appears to be one that I would want to look at, and probably have on a short list of boats to purchase.

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post #202 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009
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smack,

You posted while I was typing!

O'day built MANY designs. ranging from Optis or an equal, all the way to a 39 and 40' boat that was a jeanneau design that "WAS" ocean going oriented! Catalina also has designs that are lake, ie an 8' Sabot?!?! that produce/ed all the way up to mid 40 something foot boats that have the ability to go offshore etc. Beneteau and Jeanneau also in france build 20-30' boats that would fall into the lake/bay catagory. Along with both having boats in the 40-almost 60' range that would go offshore.

It is probably better to go by price point than actual size/design or build quality. I think we all know a $100K boat at 25' is going to/should be a better built/designed boat than a $100K 32'ish boat.

Heck, there are mini-transats that are 22'ish feet long that are ment to "race" across oceans in a single handed mode!

I could probably keep going, but am at spouses office, need to go home and let winston out of his cage to do his duties...... Hopefully this makes some semblence of sense in this whole thing.

Marty

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post #203 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009
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smack
I think it's not that clear cut. The smaller O'day, Catalina, and maybe a few others are nowhere as capable as larger designs from the same builders. I think an O'day 35 would be a good coastal cruiser but not necessarily their smaller boats. By the same token I think a smaller Hunter should maybe not be considered for coastal work while the larger ones are fine. I think a few builders produce smaller boats with the thought that nobody would want to take them offshore so build accordingly, but they know somebody will want to take a Catalina 42 farther so build it differently. The Macgregor is in the right category though, and CS ( Maine Sail has a 36T and I have a 27) are not listed
Brian
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post #204 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009 Thread Starter
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Sorry about missing stuff - I'm winging it. There's also Newport, Capitol, Dufor, Gibsea, Peterson, Farr, J-Boats, even Bruce Roberts, etc. but I have no idea where these all fall.

Okay, so continuing to narrow it down, let's keep length in the 35'-45' range (roughly). Keep in mind that we're talking about limits in this thread. That is, which of these brands in this length start to fail in the above categories? And which should we add?

Make your changes to the list and let's see where we end up. What the hell?


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post #205 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009
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The O'day 28, 30, 31, 32CC, 302, 322, 34 and 35 are all great coastal cruisers. easily as good or better than the Hunters and Catalinas of the same period. Some of these models regularly do gulf crossings and bermuda runs each year.
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post #206 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009
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I don't think too many can call a Bruce Roberts a production boat.
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post #207 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009
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Looks like Brian and I were typing similar answers at the same time too!

Also, do not quote me on this, as I recall, smacky, didn't you want this to include "current" produce boats vs non current or out of production, closed shop boats. Hence an O'day would NOT be listed, nor a cal, ranger, and maybe for that matter, even my 25yr old Jeanneau?!?!?! that was built two bk's ago, ie bangor punta to someone in france to IIRC when group Beneteau bought them. Logo changed between BP owner ship and the french group too, starting the "Sun _______" named boats, be them sun shine, sun fiz, odysess etc.

then 3-5 more posts while I am typing, i'm either way slow, or you guys are faster!

Marty

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I don't think too many can call a Bruce Roberts a production boat.
Brian
Tell that to the dude who built it in his back yard! Heh-heh.


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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-19-2009 at 09:40 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Looks like Brian and I were typing similar answers at the same time too!

Also, do not quote me on this, as I recall, smacky, didn't you want this to include "current" produce boats vs non current or out of production, closed shop boats. Hence an O'day would NOT be listed, nor a cal, ranger, and maybe for that matter, even my 25yr old Jeanneau?!?!?! that was built two bk's ago, ie bangor punta to someone in france to IIRC when group Beneteau bought them. Logo changed between BP owner ship and the french group too, starting the "Sun _______" named boats, be them sun shine, sun fiz, odysess etc.

Marty
Okay...ground rules...how about this...

Go to Yachtworld and search for boats 1984 and newer between $25K and $120K, 35'-45'...all over the world. Let's keep it in a 25 year range and this price limit.**

Rate these boats that turn up.

The reason I say this is my hunch is that most of us average schmos will be looking at boats in that range. The issue is that there is so little good info out there on how to judge them.

So - it would be cool to have some kind of general ranking...still in production or not. We're not talking new boats here. We're talking used - which is the majority of the market. Even so, the reasons behind the ratings will give everyone a better idea on how to judge even the newer boats.

For example, the Bene O38 story gave me a new insight on how to think about production boats in light of their angle of vanishing stability, etc.

**PS - I'm not shopping personally. I am into the charter thing. But I was looking last year and had a hard time figuring out what was a "good boat" for robust coastal cruising and what was not.


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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-19-2009 at 09:50 PM.
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post #210 of 2156 Old 11-19-2009
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I would like to hear from folks that have direct experience offshore in a storm with a current model Catalina, Hunter, Bene or Jeaunneau sailboat in the 35'+ range. I looked at all these brands at the last boat show and following what I've learned here on this sight regarding bluewater building techniques, I cannot tell if they are up to snuff. The boats have full liners with no way to tell ,without damage, if the bulkheads are tabbed or are bonded to the liner with equal strength. It not like it used to be, where you could grab a flashlight and look in a lazaret or behind a cupboard to find raw fiberglass and tabbed wood etc. The pamplets and websites of these boatbuilders don't hint on much in their construction.

CruisingDad,

What has been your experience in the rough stuff with your catalina 400? Did you have any oilcaning or movment of cabnetry take place?

I have looked at a Catalina 387 and it felt like a tank. It seemed to be built very well. Had a huge bilge and lots of storage.
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