Production Boats and the Limits

[Don0190]

I started a similar thread on another forum. In the end after reading all I could find and disregarding all "I heard this from someone who heard it from ..." I decided the much bad mouthed Hunter's are pretty good boats, period! If you go to their website they even have production videos of the boats, what other manufacturer does?

So in the end I went from a Hunter non-believed and basher to a believer. I feel my Hunter 410 is constructed as good as anything, and a lot better than lots (better I feel than my old Cal-39 that was considered a "good" boat). Sure it doesn't have all that fancy wood to spend your extra time on, and maybe it is just too comfortable for those on dark crowded boats to accept!

To answer the orginal question I feel my 2001 Hunter 410 is a bluewater boat with a CE A rating! I would take it anywhere I have the courage to do so, knowing it will out perform me any day!

[smackdaddy]

Hey Don...yours was actually the thread I was reading. I thought you did a really good job keeping it focused on the question at hand and getting down to the nitty-gritty of it. Thanks for a great thread on Hunters.

At the end of the day, it just seems to always come down to the fact that the sailor will give out before the boat does.

[smackdaddy]

Shut up!!! Are you serious????

You did a great job with that interview Jeff. In general, did you come away as a bit more of a believer?

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

That is amazing....The endless lifespan of the Internet never ceases to floor me. I compiled, re-wrote the questions, conducted and edited that series of interviews and discussions almost 12 years ago, and the amazing part is that it still exists on-line.

The one thing that does not appear in your quote and I did not see on the webpage was the discussion about the purpose of Hunters. The jist of that discussion was that Hunter was targeting the budget oriented, coastal cruising marketplace. That should come as no surprise. As a result, where compromises were required they were biased toward that goal rather than offshore capabilities. The compromises are in areas that are not covered by ABYC or the CE ratings such as interior layouts, hand holds and footholds.

Signed,
Shaking my head in Annapolis....

I guess from your explanation above, I'd come away thinking I got a hell of a coastal cruiser that is pretty tough. And that's the antithesis of the general mindset on Hunters.

[Markathishome]

Hmmm, interesting debate. I am in New Zealand. We see a clear difference between production - a manufactured product and what you call custom - built by a boatbuilder. There is a reason they are cheaper. The boats that do best in round the buoys club racing here are NOT production. The production products lose chainplates, keels, interior liners, rudders, genoa tracks......and the list goes on. And they don't win races. This type of racing here is in any style of boat, mostly cruisers being raced and many of these boats will do regular ocean passages.

[WDS123]

Smack,

within the industry we define builders in 3-4 categories:

Production Builders - Macgregor, Catalina, Beneteau, Hunter

Series Builders - WD Schock, Morris, Tartan, Sabre, Hinckley, Alerion Express, Swan

Custom Builders - many small and large shops.

Contract Manufacturers - these are the guys that build boats for the marketing focused sailboat companies (J boats being most well known of the marketering focused )

Within each category one will find a surprisingly narrow range of quality in the build, but a wide range of designs and capabilities.

High Performance Blue Water racers ( ie the Schock 40 ) are going to be built as light as possible and therefore will be minimally robust, just tough enough to make it safely, but make damn certain you survey every inch of the vessel after every major race.

Low Performance Blue Water Cruisers - ( Island Packets ) will tend to be overbuilt and require less care than the Schock 40, but are going to be slower and more comfortable.

Quite honestly, nearly all production boats are more floating condos than sailing vessels. The production builders need to appeal to the checkbook holder in the family (ie Mom ). They also have to battle very tough price points. This means that the production boats builders value engineer many hidde. Items on the boats, but lavish the budget on interior touches ( gimmacks ? ) which will sell the Wives

[WDS123]

the above is not to bash any builder, but just to illuminate the various issues.

As for Blue Water sailing - a buddy of mine sailed for 5 days and nights delivering his Santana 20. It was just him in his 20s and a teenager. They left Marblehead MA for NJ, they decided to sail around Cape Cod and outside LI. The winds never dropped below 25 knts, and were mostly 30+. They and the boat did just fine.

A Santana 20 was built for around the buoy racing

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Markathishome

Hmmm, interesting debate. I am in New Zealand. We see a clear difference between production - a manufactured product and what you call custom - built by a boatbuilder. There is a reason they are cheaper. The boats that do best in round the buoys club racing here are NOT production. The production products lose chainplates, keels, interior liners, rudders, genoa tracks......and the list goes on. And they don't win races. This type of racing here is in any style of boat, mostly cruisers being raced and many of these boats will do regular ocean passages.

Funny, I had the impression that last year a First 40 had won the Sydney-Hobart and this year again a First 40 and a First 45 had won their classes. I also had the impression that the Sydney-Hobart was a tough race and that this two last years were not among the easiest

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by WDSchock

Smack,

within the industry we define builders in 3-4 categories:

Production Builders - Macgregor, Catalina, Beneteau, Hunter

Series Builders - WD Schock, Morris, Tartan, Sabre, Hinckley, Alerion Express, Swan

Custom Builders - many small and large shops.

Contract Manufacturers - these are the guys that build boats for the marketing focused sailboat companies (J boats being most well known of the marketering focused )

Within each category one will find a surprisingly narrow range of quality in the build, but a wide range of designs and capabilities.

High Performance Blue Water racers ( ie the Schock 40 ) are going to be built as light as possible and therefore will be minimally robust, just tough enough to make it safely, but make damn certain you survey every inch of the vessel after every major race.

Low Performance Blue Water Cruisers - ( Island Packets ) will tend to be overbuilt and require less care than the Schock 40, but are going to be slower and more comfortable.

Quite honestly, nearly all production boats are more floating condos than sailing vessels. The production builders need to appeal to the checkbook holder in the family (ie Mom ). They also have to battle very tough price points. This means that the production boats builders value engineer many hidde. Items on the boats, but lavish the budget on interior touches ( gimmacks ? ) which will sell the Wives

Great explanation WD. It's good to see things broken down like this from someone who really knows. Thanks.

[224]

1

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by 224

Dear Mr. S. Daddy,
I previously thought your lack of coherent English important in these threads. I have changed my mind. I believe it now imperative for you to write readable English if you wish to be taken seriously or even read at all.
No wonder you get smacked. You actively promote it.

My Dearest 224,

Lest we commit the cardinal transgression of drifting from the hallowed subject of this thread whilst discussing your earnest repine, please allow me to cordially invite you to the vaunted Fight Club thread for some polite discourse...and rhetorical fat lips:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/off-to...tml#post748237

In the mean time, while I take your sage perspective under advisement, I invite you to earnestly research and practice your use of the Sailnet Quote feature. Yes, it is rather complicated - but its proper use does indeed enhance one's perceived intelligence. I've taken this opportunity to repair the damage for you above. And I'd be more than pleased to teach you how to do the same if you so desire. That's just the kind of good natured and benevolent chap I am.

Sincerely,

Smackdaddy