Production Boats and the Limits - Page 31 - SailNet Community
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post #301 of 2145 Old 07-11-2011
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...What production boats seem to be built to higher standards? Since it seems they are marketing primarily to sailors who stay fairly close to land most of the time and use their boats occasionally rather than constantly, do they design and build to what could be considered a median range of quality to satisfy that market, yet offer options for upgrade to a more robust boat?

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There are plenty of production boats aimed to passage making sailors and built with high quality materials.

Of course, the problem is to have the money to buy them

What smackdady was saying is that for most of us the option is to buy a "median" quality boat with good stability characteristics and upgrade it for offshore use. Plenty of boats like those have circumnavigated, some non stop and others sailed in high latitudes without problems.

For others the less expensive option is to buy a good old boat with 25 or 35 years but many would have no idea of the money and time needed to put it in a similar fitness state as a new good mass production boat.

Many just buy an old boat with the original mast, standing rigging and engine and thought they have a seaworthy boat. But that is not much of a problem because they don't go offshore anyway. They just like to say they have a seaworthy boat. Maybe I am exagerating but I know severall that fit in the description

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Last edited by PCP; 07-11-2011 at 09:26 PM.
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post #302 of 2145 Old 07-11-2011
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
There are plenty of production boats aimed to passage making sailors and built with high quality materials.

Of course, the problem is to have the money to buy them

What smackdady was saying is that for most of us the option is to buy a "median" quality boat with good stability characteristics and upgrade it for offshore use. Plenty of boats like those have circumnavigated, some non stop and others sailed in high latitudes without problems.

For others the less expensive option is to buy a good old boat with 25 or 35 years but many would have no idea of the money and time needed to put it in a similar fitness state as a new good mass production boat.


Paulo
Thanks for the input PCP. I was trying to get a general feel for how experienced sailors rate assorted production boats. I really have no idea how the various manufacturers are viewed according to the opinions of the actual owners. To give an example of what I'm looking for, say for instance, are Hunters generally frowned on because of light rigging (an example, not fact). Beneteau's are more highly regarded because of high quality equipment acceptable for heavy use (again, just an example). That sort of thing.

Your statement towards buying a "median" boat and upgrading it leads me to believe that manufacturers in fact do tend to please the market with something that a high percentage of sailors will be happy with while making the design upgradable to appeal to the offshore market.

I do agree with you on price points. I can say with 100% accuracy that no matter what I buy, it will come from a used inventory. No way I can afford a new boat on a carpenters pay!
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post #303 of 2145 Old 07-11-2011
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Dean

Probably the best idea is to define what you want the boat to have as far as length, rig, accommodation, draft, etc and think of your price range. Then search Yachtworld or any other internet boats for sale site.

Don't be looking for a specific brand but be open to ideas and see what turns up. If nothing else you will get a good understanding of what is available.

Here's a good start. 33' to 36' from 40k to 80k asking on Yachtworld. 528 boats found. (Sail) Boats For Sale

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post #304 of 2145 Old 07-12-2011
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How about a Corbin 39 ?
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post #305 of 2145 Old 07-12-2011
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The Corbin 39 would be a good choice. I spent a lot of time on one recently that was completely rebuilt - I did all the electrical. The second version with the bowsprit is the better one. Might be above your budget though.
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post #306 of 2145 Old 07-12-2011
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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Dean

Probably the best idea is to define what you want the boat to have as far as length, rig, accommodation, draft, etc and think of your price range. Then search Yachtworld or any other internet boats for sale site.

Don't be looking for a specific brand but be open to ideas and see what turns up. If nothing else you will get a good understanding of what is available.
Brian, maybe it would help if I share my list of possible choices that I have so far in order to give you an idea of the type of boat I'm attracted to. Here's the list:

Alajuela 38
Baba 30, 35
Bayfield 36
Bristol Channel Cutter
Cabo Rico 36, 38
Cape Dory 36
Cape George Cutter 38
Gozzard 36
Hans Christian 33, 38
Island Packet
Lord Nelson 35
Morris 38
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37
Panda 38
Passport 40
Robinhood 36, 40
Shearwater 39
Southern Cross 35, 39
Tashiba 31, 36
Ta Shing
Tayana 37
Valiant 37, 39, 40
Westsail 32

The only things that I absolutely must have is 6'2" of headroom, sturdy, seaworthy, and stable, with tankage great enough for extended time away from civilization. Speed is not so important to me as being able to handle rough use. Some of the places I want to go include the Aleutian chain, Antarctica, and the Scandinavian countries. I'm not interested in a lot of electronic devices but a windvane, GPS, and a plotter would be nice. A dedicated nav station is close to a must have. My crew will be just myself unless someone else wants to go. I'm not waiting around for them. Tiller steering and cutter rig is preferred. I do realize that I can refit whatever I buy to fit my needs for the most part. I'm saving as we speak and want to pay cash up to $40,000. I may end up financing some of it but want to totally own the boat for less than $70,000. This will take a few years but is totally do-able.

I hope this helps to clarify the type of boat that appeals to me. The looks of these boats are what initially attracted me to them. It just seems that most of the boats with this type of styling also have full keels, but not all. To be honest, I don't really care who makes the boat, so long as it appeals to me and will take the use I plan without needing an extensive refit after only a year of travel.

So, what do you think? I like the classic, traditional looks but it is difficult to get those looks along with a more performance oriented hull it seems. At least I haven't found very many.
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post #307 of 2145 Old 07-12-2011
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Looks like a good list and any should do what you wish, although for the Antarctic I would want steel or aluminum (preferred) construction.

I think some will be above your 70k budget unless in horrible condition - Morris 38, Pacific Seacraft 37 ,Cape George 38 being 3. I like the Cape George and their construction is solid - a friend has a 36 and having worked on it I was impressed. It is glass with wood decks and house and very well done.

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post #308 of 2145 Old 07-12-2011
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Yeah, some of the boats on my list will probably be out of my reach. I included them anyway though, because you never know when that once in a lifetime deal will come up.

I feel like we sort of took over Smackdaddy's thread. I hope he didn't mind! If nothing else, we wrestled the bull to the ground, huh? By the way, relating to my post about converting from wheel to tiller, do you think it's possible for most of the boats on the list? The boats with the rudders set at or near the transom appear to be easily converted. Boats like the Cape Dory with the raised transom I'm not sure about...

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post #309 of 2145 Old 07-12-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
Brian, maybe it would help if I share my list of possible choices that I have so far in order to give you an idea of the type of boat I'm attracted to. Here's the list:

Alajuela 38
Baba 30, 35
Bayfield 36
Bristol Channel Cutter
Cabo Rico 36, 38
Cape Dory 36
Cape George Cutter 38
Gozzard 36
Hans Christian 33, 38
Island Packet
Lord Nelson 35
Morris 38
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37
Panda 38
Passport 40
Robinhood 36, 40
Shearwater 39
Southern Cross 35, 39
Tashiba 31, 36
Ta Shing
Tayana 37
Valiant 37, 39, 40
Westsail 32

The only things that I absolutely must have is 6'2" of headroom, sturdy, seaworthy, and stable, with tankage great enough for extended time away from civilization. Speed is not so important to me as being able to handle rough use. Some of the places I want to go include the Aleutian chain, Antarctica, and the Scandinavian countries. I'm not interested in a lot of electronic devices but a windvane, GPS, and a plotter would be nice. A dedicated nav station is close to a must have. My crew will be just myself unless someone else wants to go. I'm not waiting around for them. Tiller steering and cutter rig is preferred. I do realize that I can refit whatever I buy to fit my needs for the most part. I'm saving as we speak and want to pay cash up to $40,000. I may end up financing some of it but want to totally own the boat for less than $70,000. This will take a few years but is totally do-able.

I hope this helps to clarify the type of boat that appeals to me. The looks of these boats are what initially attracted me to them. It just seems that most of the boats with this type of styling also have full keels, but not all. To be honest, I don't really care who makes the boat, so long as it appeals to me and will take the use I plan without needing an extensive refit after only a year of travel.

So, what do you think? I like the classic, traditional looks but it is difficult to get those looks along with a more performance oriented hull it seems. At least I haven't found very many.
Have you considered a Nor'Sea 27? It's somewhat shorter than anything you list, but they have a strong reputation as world cruisers, look just salty as hell, have tiller steering, can be had with wind vane steering, and can sometimes be found in the $35,000 to $50,000 range. They are still in production, although a new one at about $140 grand is well outside your stated range.

Long keel, 3'10" draft, cutaway forefoot. At leastt 5 have circumnavigated and over 150 are known to have crossed the Atlantic and/or Pacific.

I don't sell them. I have one, and it may never see long ocean cruises... I'm an inland lake sailor. But it's way cool.

By the way, don't let that weird fat mast put you off. Mine's rigged as a Chinese Junk, but there are to the best of my knowledge only two on earth that are, so you're not likely to run across one. Factory rigging is standard sloop (sorry not a cutter) and set for easy setup and breakdown. As you can see, they're portable.

Oops! I tried to stick some photos in up there, but obviously I don't know how yet. You can see the boat on a trailer at https://picasaweb.google.com/junkrigsailor/TripHome


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S/V Seablossom Nor'Sea 27 with modern junk rig.
Just because I like it.

Last edited by junkrig; 07-12-2011 at 09:41 PM. Reason: I couldn't make the pics show.
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post #310 of 2145 Old 07-12-2011
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You're right Junkrig, it is a salty looking boat. Actually quite attractive. It might work for an interim boat but at 6' of headroom, I would be stooping all the time. That is the only thing I don't like about the Bristol Channel Cutter on my list. It just wouldn't be comfortable for me as a livesboard/cruiser. That's why most of the boats on my list are on up in the 30' or better range. How much different is the junk rig from a sloop? Do you use a headsail?
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