Production Boats and the Limits

[DRFerron]

Originally Posted by PCP

Can you point the link for that factory beef up? I can only see options, not really nothing out of the ordinary:

Conception

Gestation

Regards

Paulo

The list of options added at the factory (and subsequent upgrades after delivery) are what I'm referring to. After all that it's no longer off the shelf in my mind. I could be splitting hairs. I'm only in the research phase so I may be off the mark. At this time I expect a truly traditional offshore-capable boat to have those options listed as standard.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much for the cost of these boats?

[sea_hunter]

This boat is not a "stock" Hunter 49. Therefore does not meet the requirement of being a production boat. While creature comforts can be added to any boat, structural and design modifications make it a one off. Basically a wolf in sheep's clothing.
The additions to Sequitur are actually worth more than the boat itself. Our boat is rigged pretty much the same way with a few more additions and would NOT consider our boat as production either. It begs the argument though; is there a cutoff to dollars spent over and above available factory options that pushes a boat beyond production? I think I'll create a thread.
http://www.yacht-sequitur.ca/gestation1.htm

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by DRFerron

The list of options added at the factory (and subsequent upgrades after delivery) are what I'm referring to. After all that it's no longer off the shelf in my mind. I could be splitting hairs. I'm only in the research phase so I may be off the mark. At this time I expect a truly traditional offshore-capable boat to have those options listed as standard.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much for the cost of these boats?

In terms of the original premise of the thread - I'd say you are splitting hairs. And sea_hunter, I'd say the same for your post, though your idea for that thread is a good one.

Most of the debates I've read regarding what is good/bad in terms of "blue water boats" is not about the equipment, but about the design/build/structural elements of the boat. Modern productions boats, especially the Hunters, have always been panned as being way too lightly built or having poor features (spade rudder, wide beam/stern, hull thickness, grid? structure, bilges, etc.) to be worthy of "blue water". They are "coastal cruisers" not "passage makers" has been the refrain.

Regardless of the amount of money in equipment added, all the above aspects of this Hunter remained the same as it was off-the-shelf (from what I can see). And despite all those upgrades and additions (even the marine-grade washer and dryer) - none of the "Blue Man Group" would ever have given the nod to a Hunter (despite its open ocean CE rating).

Until now...

[PCP]

Originally Posted by sea_hunter

This boat is not a "stock" Hunter 49. Therefore does not meet the requirement of being a production boat. While creature comforts can be added to any boat, structural and design modifications make it a one off. Basically a wolf in sheep's clothing.
The additions to Sequitur are actually worth more than the boat itself. Our boat is rigged pretty much the same way with a few more additions and would NOT consider our boat as production either. It begs the argument though; is there a cutoff to dollars spent over and above available factory options that pushes a boat beyond production? I think I'll create a thread.
Gestation

What are you talking about? I don't see anything in what regards structural reinforcements, hull or rig beef up or anything that can contribute to a boat superior seaworthiness or strength. Most things added has to do with living aboard and sailing extensively. They would also make sense if they use the boat intensively as a coastal boat and if they want to stay out of marinas.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by DRFerron

The list of options added at the factory (and subsequent upgrades after delivery) are what I'm referring to. After all that it's no longer off the shelf in my mind. I could be splitting hairs. I'm only in the research phase so I may be off the mark. At this time I expect a truly traditional offshore-capable boat to have those options listed as standard.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much for the cost of these boats?

Ferron, it makes sense that you have a basic sound and seaworthy boat that you can configure for several kinds of sailing. That way everybody win. If a boat would be from the start completely equipped for offshore work the potential buyers would be few and the cost of the boat high.

What production brands do is to make a boat that can be equipped and used for several uses, a basic boat that can have different optional equipment that will make it suitable for each particular use.

That way they make much more boats (different sailors looking for the same basic boat) they can sell them cheaper and the one that will only want the boat for coastal use don't have to pay the expensive equipment that will make it an offshore boat.

As anyone that has done that know the difference in price (between a basic boat to a fully equipped boat) can be huge. Even so a boat equipped for offshore work through equipment added to a basic boat will always be a lot less expensive then to buy one of the few boats that come already equipped with every thing you need offshore.

Regards

Paulo

[smackdaddy]

Just ran across this on Sequitur's blog:

t is about 4400 miles from Puerto Williams to Cape Town. With following winds and currents for a major portion of the way, we can expect to make an average of better than 150 miles per day, so the passage might take 30 days. Mike Harker in his circumnavigation with his Hunter 49 made many 200-mile days crossing the South Pacific and the Indian Oceans, and he had a 1398-mile week. He averaged 157 miles per day for the complete circuit.

And here's more on Mike Harker and his circ:

Around the world with Mike Harker

This whole production boat butt-kicking thing is becoming very, very interesting!

[PCP]

And Tomasz is passing the Horn, solo, in its Delphia 40. Maybe they meet.

It has to be on the sea because Tomasz is circumnavigating non-stop.

Lokalizacja | Around The World Delphia Project

Regards

Paulo

[randyrhines]

My eyes are much more opened, there is a difference between security built blue water boats , and what you might get by in.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by PCP

And Tomasz is passing the Horn, solo, in its Delphia 40. Maybe they meet.

It has to be on the sea because Tomasz is circumnavigating non-stop.

Lokalizacja | Around The World Delphia Project

Regards

Paulo

Wow! That's awesome. He just now passing Przyladec Horn and just about to turn for home!

[ardoin]

Any boat can sail across an ocean in good weather. The real issue is what boats offer the most comfort in sailing through a variety of open ocean conditions. When the wind clock 180deg to the prevailing swell, would you rather be on medium or heavy displacement boat or a light boat. And how much effort will it take you to manage that vessel in cases where the winds and waves do not coincide? Not to say that an experience skipper couldn't sail either type of boat safely under those conditions, but as a cruising retired couple, which would you prefer? A slower Baba or a fast modern Bene?