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  #381  
Old 04-13-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

S/V Abbeygale, not sure what you mean by the last sentence in your last reply.
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  #382  
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Staying in line with the subject of the op. IMHO, I have seen and read about many long passages and even a few circumnavigations in stock, well maintained production boats. Most production boats can take more punishment than the crew.
My intention is not to get into a pissing match on boats, or over defend Catalinas or other affordable production boats. I will share with my reasoning on choosing the Cat 36, I am open and thankful for those who disagree and have differing opinions. I am nearly ready to pull the trigger on a Cat 36, so please, feel free to sway my decision before I take the plunge, pardon the pun.
The Cat 36 seems to retains resale value better than the general market. It is still in production and parts and support network is easily found. Any mod you may choose, has already been done and documented so easy to copy. I like afternoon and sunset sails, I like morning coffee putts around the harbor with classical music. I don't like being dependant on crew so simple and easily single handed is important. The hardware on any boat is sized to it's expected max load. Any boat of mid 80's vintage must be carefully surveyed and inspected. Any boat with 10-15 year old rigging should be re-rigged, both standing and running, before any extended cruise or passage. Over building certain hardware, can cause a breakdown elsewhere. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
Even the most hardy and purist of cruisers spend over 95% of time at anchor, on mooring or marina, depending on budget, so a boat that is comfortable in condo mode is important. Most cruisers endure the passages to be there, so being comfortable when there is an impartant factor. The most skilled, experienced, and prudent sailors seldom, if ever, have to endure storm conditions beyond what a production boat can handle because they use their superior skills and experience to avoid those situations.
Tankage?? Very good qualifier. There are many ways to increase both fresh water and fuel capacity either temporarily, ie jerry cans and soft tanks, or convert storage area to tankage area.
I may only think I am as close as I am to buying another boat, but I can't help but want to save as much for the cruising kitty as I can. Being broke on a big nice boat is probably worse than having the finanaces to cruise on a smaller more modest boat. There is a Cat. 36, bought for 25k in this years PPJ. Patriot circumnavigated, seems to be more of these type production boats in the Ha Ha and actually out there than the high end yachts. Why?? Affordability, plain and simple.
I am sure I have more, don't worry about that, but out of time right now. Gotta call a broker on a Cat 36. Affordable, with money left over to do the upcoming Ha Ha.
Larry
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  #383  
Old 04-13-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Bring back pics of the HaHa, dude! Sounds like fun!
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  #384  
Old 04-13-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Sorry meant to say Boats usually don't randomly sink, even in tremendous seas, I can find no objections to a stock-maybe with a few mods off shore, there are many problems with a really expensive boat 1) if its too much of net worth l may be too paranoid to leave the boat (perhaps others share this) 2) The comment on parts for a C35/6 are well placed, for example I have never met a person in the US who has heard of let alone seen a Koopmans, figuring out exactly what it is was hard, still not sure all the words are in dutch...... in the end I look at all the crap that are supposedly blue water.... and look at my and all the stuff the magazines say you need...... and well it seems like a lot of crap. There are some things I think are necessary, but they have lttle to do with the Hull (except substantial backing plates, cleats, ground tackle system, chainplates, most stuff can be changed out.
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Old 04-14-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

By Production Boat, I mean the kind of boat that most would not label "blue water" capable. It's basically the list in the last sentence of the second paragraph.

At this point, I personally think it's a myth for the most part. Most any boat will be fine if you sail it well.
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  #386  
Old 04-14-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

I wouldn't call Hinckley a production boat, nor Morris nor Cape George.

Tayana and Cheoy Lee certainly are production boats.

Brewer is a designer, not a builder.


It's not whether it is a production boat or not, but where the design and build quality are focused. And many boats not ever intended for offshore use can be modified to make it work.

I think what is most interesting is many boats thought of as good offshore boats were never designed or built for this. Ones that come to mind are the Pearson Triton, Alberg 30 and Alberg 35 - all designed and intended for coastal use only.
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  #387  
Old 04-19-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

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  #388  
Old 10-12-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Okay - so - after studying and discussing this issue for over 4 years now, I have reached a conclusion...

There are virtually no limits on any production cruising boat. You can sail most any boat around the world...as long as the weather is right, and as long as you are a pretty good, pretty conservative sailor.

The whole "bluewater boat" debate is crap. We can go ahead and lock this thread now.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-12-2012 at 08:08 PM.
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  #389  
Old 10-12-2012
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Okay - so - after studying and discussing this issue for over 4 years now, I have reached a conclusion...

There are virtually no limits on any production cruising boat. You can sail most any boat around the world...as long as the weather is right, and as long as you are a pretty good, pretty conservative sailor.

The whole "bluewater boat" debate is crap. We can go ahead and lock this thread now.
This is the more incredible boat that I know that has successively circumnavigated:



Not only the boat is incredibly small (19ft) as it is a lake boat not intended to sail on the sea. It would be difficult to beat this one. I guess the guy deserves the record for circumnavigation made in the least appropriated boat

"Meet Aron Meder, a 29 year old Hungarian sailor who sets out and sailed alone for the past 2 and half years, growing a long beard, looking a bit like Tom Hanks in that Castaway movie.

His beloved yacht is a small and limited capacity called Carina, only 19 feet or 6 meters long. He told us he likes to travel, it is his passion. Therefore, he sailed around the world, starting from Europe to Africa then to the Caribbean, Galapagos, Hawaii and Fiji where he had lived half a year, Papua New Guinea, Australia, and then across the Indian Ocean to Bali, Singapore to Penang, and last but not least, he stopped at Phuket for a one day rest and planned to set off to Sri Lanka and perhaps next to India.

He talked about Carina, his small vessel, which was built in 1970 in Switzerland, which he rebuilt from the outside and inside in November 2004, stating her strength despite her short length and her character due to her elongated keel which helps keep better direction. Carina also has fewer problems due to her small size such as stability and capsizing problems. But also due to its small size, journeys are longer and there were many storms he had to face when sailing but he doesn't mind because he likes a challenge.

Aron told us about some of the dangerous situations he had to face during his long journey. He told us that his small yacht cannot be easily noticed by bigger ships therefore he has to warn them when they come closer to him, otherwise those bigger ships create huge and enormous waves which will make his small vessel capsize. He also told us about big sharks and whales that sometimes followed but do not attack him.

I asked him if he ever gets lonely sailing alone in the ocean. He told me he does not have any problem communicating with other people nor does he get worried when he is alone in the middle of the ocean with nobody to talk to. He sometimes chats with other sailors from other ships via VHF radio and his collection of books and fixing Carina when she has a leak or when she starts making weird noises, has been keeping him occupied most of the time.

Aron find foods by fishing, cooks his own food and his favorite dish is coconut with fish. He also makes his own jam and gets stock of food when he comes to the shore.

He keeps in-touch with his family via Internet and e-mail on shore visits. Aron told me that he misses his family dearly and especially his younger sister who needs a big brother around, but he still wants to travel and sail to other countries maybe for another year then after that he will come home to Europe.

He knows that his family gives him their best support and understands him. Before he sailed off to Sri Lanka, I asked him what he wants to do in the near future after he satisfies his needs of traveling and sailing. He told me that he might rest Carina at his grandparents backyard in Hungary and he might buy a new race yacht, which he has a major interest in pursuing a career in. But that is just the future, he is more like a man of the present, as he wants to do his best today. He is very happy with what hes doing now. It is an experience that he cannot find elsewhere and he is not willing to trade with anyone".


Quite a character

Carina and me

Földkörüli szóló-vitorlázás Carinával (6 m), Sailing Alone Around the World with Carina (19 ft boat)

Well now he races a miniclass racer



Regards

Paulo
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  #390  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
So how would you guys divide production boats into general "quality/capability tiers"?

Would it be something like this:

1. Lake/Bay Boats
-O'day
-Macgregor
-Lancer
-Yorktown

2. Coastal Boats
-Catalina
-Hunter
-Beneteau
-Jenneau
-Irwin
-Cal

3. Premium Coastal (Light Blue Water Capable)
-IP
-Caliber
-Ericson
-C&C
-Tartan
-Dehler
-Endeavour
-Gulfstar
-Morgan
-Cheoy Lee
-Pearson

4. Non-Production/High End Blue Water
-Tayana
-Hinckley
-Cabo Rico
-Oyster
-etc.
I know it's an old thread, but is Smackdaddy's grouping fairly good? I found it interesting that the Endeavour ranked in the same class as the IPs and Calibers.
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