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  #471  
Old 11-05-2013
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Nice video - really nice. Great experience with the kids. Let me ask you this. Can you read in the V-Birth in conditions like that? That, I find, is the big test as to whether someone will get sea sick.

I have never gotten sea sick myself. However, I have noticed some changes in the last couple of years. A few times if I go on the tilt-a-whirl too many times in a row, I will start to feel really sick and weird. That has never happened before. On the boat, there have been a couple of times that long, slow waves seem to start making me feel strange. But not the rough stuff - yet. We just took the boat down to Crowleys to put her to bed for the winter in like 6-8 footers and it was easy as pie. Others came in with full foulies on acting like it was rough. Our boat seem to take it pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&ns=1...id=Q_WSihrtx78
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  #472  
Old 11-05-2013
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
......
It doesn't matter what boat you're in - if the conditions are wrong, you're gonna puke. And eventually, you'll get over it. "Motion comfort", at least as framed in these debates, is a very squishy concept.
.. fixed it for ya!

Nice vid, smack.. what were the temps there this time of year? Looks pretty mild from up here in the PNW...
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Last edited by Faster; 11-05-2013 at 11:17 PM.
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  #473  
Old 11-05-2013
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

jzk - these were the biggest swells I've been in to date. And we were beating into them. NO WAY I'd read in the v-berth! You saw that sprit bouncing around...you'd be tenderized up there far before you started puking. (PS - linky no worky).

Fast, the temps were in the mid '70s. Very nice ride.
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  #474  
Old 11-05-2013
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
So on this whole "motion comfort" thing - I'm gonna have to call a little BS. On our recent 150-mile offshore delivery...shown here:
....
It doesn't matter what boat you're in - if the conditions are right, you're gonna puke. And eventually, you'll get over it. "Motion comfort", at least as framed in these debates, is a very squishy concept.
I don't know ...maybe. I never puked in a boat. I am not a puke guy but unfortunately I know what make my wife and my kids (not kids anymore) Puke: it is when I am having fun

It is horrible to have a big grin and enjoying the ride and then have to make a sorrow face when I ask to my wife: are you better?

It is not fun also to take some sail and speed out and open the upwind course to give her a softer ride. That's life: we wave to compromise and that's a pity.

Now what are you saying about sea motion comfort? It is the motion of a sailboat when I am not having fun? Give me the fun and have the soft motion to yourself and to all Puke guys and girls

regards

Paulo
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  #475  
Old 11-05-2013
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

I assume you're driving most of the time in those conditions? Like I said, this was the first time in about 600+ miles in this boat that I've puked. I don't think I would have puked on this one had I been driving. Driving makes a big difference - it's a lot easier to smile. And anyway, I only tossed a couple of times in the first hour or so and was fine after that. The boys had a much harder time.

I did LOVE the 30 knot squall we got hit with there at the end, though. THAT was some BFS'n! Waves blown flat, double reefed main and still doing over 7 knots, rain blowing sideways, yeah baby!
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-06-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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  #476  
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I assume you're driving most of the time in those conditions? Like I said, this was the first time in about 600+ miles in this boat that I've puked. I don't think I would have puked on this one had I been driving. Driving makes a big difference - it's a lot easier to smile. And anyway, I only tossed a couple of times in the first hour or so and was fine after that. The boys had a much harder time.

I did LOVE the 30 knot squall we got hit with there at the end, though. THAT was some BFS'n! Waves blown flat, double reefed main and still doing over 7 knots, rain blowing sideways, yeah baby!
Yes, at the wheel, not because I needed too, but because I enjoy to be at the wheel when it is fun to be there. on autopilot I don't have problems either but you are right, given the right (or wrong) conditions I can get seasick.

The only time I felt starting to be seasick was 30 years ago on a 60ft heavy steel boat with a soft motion. A Belgian friend asked me and another friend to give him a help on the boat that he had charted to some "mad" British that wanted to take photos of a rare bird way offshore.

There was big waves but the sea was not particularly bad. Those guys had taken aboard a drum full of incredibly smelly oil fish, to through in the water and attracts the birds. I was cooking in the galley thinking how someone could eat with that smell when I started to fell seasick. I went up and asked to the other guy (a national sailing champion) to go down and finish the job because I was starting to be seasick. He made fun of me and went down...but 10m later was asking me to change for a bit...because he was felling seasick

So you are right, there are conditions where even the ones that don't normally get seasick can get seasick.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-06-2013 at 09:06 PM.
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  #477  
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
So on this whole "motion comfort" thing - I'm gonna have to call a little BS. On our recent 150-mile offshore delivery...shown here:

The Smackboys' Adventures : 150-Mile Offshore

...we were on a very nicely maintained Pearson 365 Ketch. Our course was ENE at 6-7knots, and the conditions were sporty but not bad (as you can see in the video):

15-20 knots SSE
6'-8' seas with the occasional 12'er rolling through (a bit more south than the wind)
Tight, choppy windwaves atop the swells
Clear and cool

Now I think many would consider the Pearson 365 a fairly respectable "bluewater boat" (some might not and I get that)...one that should offer a fair amount of "motion comfort" with its cutaway keel, skeg-hung rudder, deepish hull, etc. Also, this is my 4th 100+ mile off-shore on this boat, two of them races, so I'm pretty familiar with it.

Well, I puked...for the first time ever.

And the boat did some serious splashing at the bow (you can see it in the video) - some might call it "pounding". She also did a hell of a lot of creaking and groaning in that seaway. And, I want to be clear, she's a great boat.

Now, I'll revisit this issue when we get our Hunter out there this spring...but, my working theory right now is that when we compare the "production" boat to the "bluewater" boat - everything we're comparing is extremely relative and far more subtle than most want to acknowledge.

It doesn't matter what boat you're in - if the conditions are right, you're gonna puke. And eventually, you'll get over it. "Motion comfort", at least as framed in these debates, is a very squishy concept.
Do you think you would have gotten sick quicker on a less "comfortable" boat?
I found my wife, kids and I like the slower motion better. Also having our kids on board adds to the uneasy feeling. We haven't gotten sick yet but the closest was when our kids got sick.

Don't totally discount the "comfort" yet. I have found it has its place when comparing similar sized boats.
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  #478  
Old 11-06-2013
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctl411 View Post
Do you think you would have gotten sick quicker on a less "comfortable" boat?
I found my wife, kids and I like the slower motion better. Also having our kids on board adds to the uneasy feeling. We haven't gotten sick yet but the closest was when our kids got sick.

Don't totally discount the "comfort" yet. I have found it has its place when comparing similar sized boats.
I don't mean to discount the argument - I'm just saying it's an issue of degrees. In other words, sickness will come on either boat if you're susceptible and the conditions are right. Then it simply becomes a question of:

1. Do you puke 2 times less on the older bluewater boat than on the newer production boat?

2. Does it take you 2 hours longer to start puking on the older bluewater boat than on the production boat?

So, I fully acknowledge that it's a factor. There is math involved. And I respect math.

But I certainly wouldn't want to sell my family on the notion that they'll be more "comfortable" (i.e. - not puke) on an older bluewater boat than they will be on our Hunter 40 in the same conditions. I just think the actual differences are marginal.

Again, I'll have to see when take our H40 out this spring.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-06-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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  #479  
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

They might not puke on a higher comfort boat for the same conditions. Oh and I'm not talking old old crab crushers. I'm talking comparable boats and in my case Hunters. Hunter 37.5 vs Hunter 37c same size same builder totally different ride. But this is just one part of many things that should go into choosing a boat. I find the quicker motion wears me out faster but for short 4-6 hour day sails the quicker boats are more fun. It's all about how "you" are going to use the boat and your idea of comfort. Our new ride a old Gulf 50 is pretty lame for excitement. It takes bigger wave and more wind for the same rush. I've been playing around on a Laser to get my speed fix.
Perfect boat sails like a dinghy on Friday afternoon then turns into a smooth riding cruiser when the family comes out to sail lol.
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  #480  
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Makes sense to me.
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