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  #11  
Old 07-30-2009
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First let me say that I am very excited by all the replies to my questions, and partly encouraged, whilst simultaneously daunted somewhat by the task at hand. That is ok. I don't scare easy, and I'm good at calming down the Admiral. Having made a low-budget independent feature-film which dominated my life for several years, I believe I can do anything!

Regarding the choice of a Kettenburg: I wouldn't even consider it for a SECOND, had the boat not been hauled and taken town to the wood, inspected, and repainted a year ago, and also upgraded in many ways. This particular boat is supposed to be in very good condition, though in need of some cosmetic re-varnishing. If the boat in question needed full restoration, it would not be the boat for me. Since (from what I understand) it has been well maintained and equipped for a journey from Eastern FLA to the BVI, as well as cruising the Caribbean, and very very shipshape with no dry-rot whatsoever, I'm considering it, and may fly out to look at the boat in question and have it independently surveyed. I don't mind hauling it and recaulking it every few years. I don't mind being conducting inspections every month, learning to sister joints, and keeping a very close eye on the bilges. If they're full when I look at this boat, I'm just going to walk the other way. From what I understand, this boat is a dry one (for a wood boat) and in very good shape, though it could be prettier (like I said, needs some varnish on the exterior, which I'm absolutely able and willing to do).

Would I like to own a classic piece of art? Yep. Do I want to completely renovate and upgrade an aging boat? No, that's why I'm looking at a boat that has already had most of that done (so I'm told - again, if personal inspection reveals this to not be the case, I'm walking). Once I've gotten enough posts to post a link, I'll link the ad for this one. It's in Venice, Florida.

I know a wooden boat is not an easy choice, and believe me, I'm certainly open to looking at other boats, and most of what I've got my eye on is fiberglass - it's just tougher to find one that moves me the way the lines of the Ket do. Ok, nothing will, I know. But I'm still hoping to be a little moved by SOMETHING, and also hoping to find a boat I can do some serious voyaging in (with a little work and investment) as well as living aboard for under 20 grand. Blue water capable would be best (would love to sail to Europe, visit my family in Sweden, and let my little Viking conduct his own invasion of Lindesfarne in the Dinghy. Travel brings history to life in a way few things can.)

Living aboard in DC: I haven't even been able to get the dockmaster of the gangplank marina to call me back, so I don't doubt that the liveaboard list is miles long! The notion of needing a marina is getting clearer and clearer. With the added consideration of salt leeching from the wood in the Ket and shrinking the planks, Annapolis is sounding more and more inviting! I've also had a look at the city, and it's a MUCH better place to live than DC from what I can tell. Even if we decide not to liveaboard, I think that's where I'd want to live.

Regarding the Wolf (dog): CD, very VERY valuable points brought forth. If I can live at a marina, I think it's probably doable. Living on the hook with a dog, probably not so much. Anouk (the wolf) is 8 years old, and can still hop into the back seat of my Land Rover Discovery with a 3" lift, and EASILY over the baby-gates I've erected to keep the boy out of the kitchen and off the stairs when I'm not looking. I expect it'll be years before she has trouble getting up and down the ladder of a boat, but there's one thing that's got me a bit nervous (and it's not the seasickness - I picked from several pups, two of whom had puked in the car ride to see me. Guess which one I picked? Yup. The one who didn't). What's got me nervous is that she hates water. I mean, she LOVES SHALLOW water. She HATES swimming. Who knows? Perhaps life on a boat will embolden her, she's a bit of a wimp. If she can't hack it, she may have to live with Grandma and Grandpa for a bit, they love each other very much, and are definitely part of the "pack". This may be something I have to consider further. I'd definitely miss having her around, she's a WONDERFUL Dog, and has always made me feel safer.

The need for a larger holding tank is apparent. That is something I WILL need to do.

Regarding firearms, I have a pistol and an old bolt-action hunting rifle (actually was originally an implement of vileness in WWII, but I've turned it into something useful). The rifle will be stored off boat, and I may lock the pistol up somewhere with the flare gun. Nice thought about using the flare gun for defense, but really... I dunno if shooting someone with a flare on a wooden boat (or any boat not made of steel) is a safe idea.

CD, you have a really wonderful looking family, and are very blessed! It looks like you four all have a really awesome time aboard, that is what I'm hoping for as well.

Everyone, thank you so much for the wonderful advice and additional info. I feel like I know my options much better now, and though as I said before, some of this is daunting, but excitement and determination are more than sufficient to overcome. I hope this works out for us. My plans are getting a little delayed, looks like we won't be moving for another month or two (government moves slow, as we all sadly know). This probably means the Ket will sell to someone else, lucky soul. But maybe not! We'll see what happens, and I will keep posting with updates (and of course more questions) here!

scottyt, thanks for your offer, and I may just take you up on it if I end up with that Ket! Late August is probably the soonest I'd be making the journey, so it might be perfect (if the boat is up to snuff).
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svartsvensk View Post
First let me say that I am very excited by all the replies to my questions, and partly encouraged, whilst simultaneously daunted somewhat by the task at hand. That is ok. I don't scare easy, and I'm good at calming down the Admiral. Having made a low-budget independent feature-film which dominated my life for several years, I believe I can do anything!

Regarding the choice of a Kettenburg: I wouldn't even consider it for a SECOND, had the boat not been hauled and taken town to the wood, inspected, and repainted a year ago, and also upgraded in many ways. This particular boat is supposed to be in very good condition, though in need of some cosmetic re-varnishing. If the boat in question needed full restoration, it would not be the boat for me. Since (from what I understand) it has been well maintained and equipped for a journey from Eastern FLA to the BVI, as well as cruising the Caribbean, and very very shipshape with no dry-rot whatsoever, I'm considering it, and may fly out to look at the boat in question and have it independently surveyed. I don't mind hauling it and recaulking it every few years. I don't mind being conducting inspections every month, learning to sister joints, and keeping a very close eye on the bilges. If they're full when I look at this boat, I'm just going to walk the other way. From what I understand, this boat is a dry one (for a wood boat) and in very good shape, though it could be prettier (like I said, needs some varnish on the exterior, which I'm absolutely able and willing to do).

Would I like to own a classic piece of art? Yep. Do I want to completely renovate and upgrade an aging boat? No, that's why I'm looking at a boat that has already had most of that done (so I'm told - again, if personal inspection reveals this to not be the case, I'm walking). Once I've gotten enough posts to post a link, I'll link the ad for this one. It's in Venice, Florida.

I know a wooden boat is not an easy choice, and believe me, I'm certainly open to looking at other boats, and most of what I've got my eye on is fiberglass - it's just tougher to find one that moves me the way the lines of the Ket do. Ok, nothing will, I know. But I'm still hoping to be a little moved by SOMETHING, and also hoping to find a boat I can do some serious voyaging in (with a little work and investment) as well as living aboard for under 20 grand. Blue water capable would be best (would love to sail to Europe, visit my family in Sweden, and let my little Viking conduct his own invasion of Lindesfarne in the Dinghy. Travel brings history to life in a way few things can.)

Living aboard in DC: I haven't even been able to get the dockmaster of the gangplank marina to call me back, so I don't doubt that the liveaboard list is miles long! The notion of needing a marina is getting clearer and clearer. With the added consideration of salt leeching from the wood in the Ket and shrinking the planks, Annapolis is sounding more and more inviting! I've also had a look at the city, and it's a MUCH better place to live than DC from what I can tell. Even if we decide not to liveaboard, I think that's where I'd want to live.

Regarding the Wolf (dog): CD, very VERY valuable points brought forth. If I can live at a marina, I think it's probably doable. Living on the hook with a dog, probably not so much. Anouk (the wolf) is 8 years old, and can still hop into the back seat of my Land Rover Discovery with a 3" lift, and EASILY over the baby-gates I've erected to keep the boy out of the kitchen and off the stairs when I'm not looking. I expect it'll be years before she has trouble getting up and down the ladder of a boat, but there's one thing that's got me a bit nervous (and it's not the seasickness - I picked from several pups, two of whom had puked in the car ride to see me. Guess which one I picked? Yup. The one who didn't). What's got me nervous is that she hates water. I mean, she LOVES SHALLOW water. She HATES swimming. Who knows? Perhaps life on a boat will embolden her, she's a bit of a wimp. If she can't hack it, she may have to live with Grandma and Grandpa for a bit, they love each other very much, and are definitely part of the "pack". This may be something I have to consider further. I'd definitely miss having her around, she's a WONDERFUL Dog, and has always made me feel safer.

The need for a larger holding tank is apparent. That is something I WILL need to do.

Regarding firearms, I have a pistol and an old bolt-action hunting rifle (actually was originally an implement of vileness in WWII, but I've turned it into something useful). The rifle will be stored off boat, and I may lock the pistol up somewhere with the flare gun. Nice thought about using the flare gun for defense, but really... I dunno if shooting someone with a flare on a wooden boat (or any boat not made of steel) is a safe idea.

CD, you have a really wonderful looking family, and are very blessed! It looks like you four all have a really awesome time aboard, that is what I'm hoping for as well.

Everyone, thank you so much for the wonderful advice and additional info. I feel like I know my options much better now, and though as I said before, some of this is daunting, but excitement and determination are more than sufficient to overcome. I hope this works out for us. My plans are getting a little delayed, looks like we won't be moving for another month or two (government moves slow, as we all sadly know). This probably means the Ket will sell to someone else, lucky soul. But maybe not! We'll see what happens, and I will keep posting with updates (and of course more questions) here!

scottyt, thanks for your offer, and I may just take you up on it if I end up with that Ket! Late August is probably the soonest I'd be making the journey, so it might be perfect (if the boat is up to snuff).
If it is in Venice, I glanced at it online.

Hey... I hope I am wrong... but in general any wooden boat is a maintenance nightmare. What was the last time that boat was surveyed? Do NOT buy that boat without a indepth, hard, buyer-picked surveyor.

I know a good one that I trust. I have sailed with him off the CA coast and spent who knows how many hours togehter elsewhere. He knows his stuff. Even Nordhavn picked him as one of their surveyors - and that means a lot. I can get his contact info for you if you wish. In the meantime, please do a lot more shopping on boats and research wooden boats in particular. I am very negative on them.

Also, CharlieCobra has a wooden boat IIRC. He is here. I think he can give you a fair assesment and he is generally positive about his girl. He would be another resource for you.

Best of luck with everything. Feel free to keep asking questions. Like others in our passion, we WANT you into cruising and sailing. THere simply is not enough of us out there with kids. I just don't want you making a mistake either. And like I said upfront, I am opinionated... but have been doing it a long time too.

Great talking with ya,

Brian
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2009
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I hope she is eveything you hope she is, they are beautiful boats, the only thing more pleasing to the soul is life aboard. My wife and I have been doing it for 3 yrs now with two small dogs and it's been awsome.
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Old 07-30-2009
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WOW- from cruisingdad's perspective I have been doing it ALL WRONG !

However - probably good advice based on your situation and apparent lack of experience in these sailing matters.If your green and "new" to it and used to having "it all" or a considerable chunk of it and are the type to buy a new car every few years including the extra warranty, if you have never changed your own oil or(gasp) tires. I would say follow his advice. It seems many on sailnet fit that description. From the nice pictures SD posted, he can well afford it ! and I say good for ya ! sound advice,safe reasonable,etc,etc.
However, if the spoon hanging from your mouth is plastic or wood and not silver, and if you're not terribly adverse of getting a little (or alot) dirty and are confident of your learning abiity and quite adventurous.there are MANY different approaches as there are answers.
Know thyself first.
We sailed w/ 4 dogs- pain doesn't begin to describe it, but when I got the dogs I accepted the whole pet ownership thing, they're gods creatures, not discardable items. they expend a lifetime of loyalty to me, a bit of inconvenience seems minor turn-about. Don't forget lifejackets for the pets.
Heat ? well,I built a wood stove capable of burning wood,coal,charcoal , and a whole lot of other interesting stuff. Dirty? yea , can be. but the fuel cost savings is incredible and very easy to find!
Dinghy- spent the first 2 years only rowing,then built a gaff rig, finally about 6 months ago found a sweet deal on a 3.5 2stroke johnson almost new condition (you probably thought I was gonna say I built one ,right) Now , with motor on the dinghy bringing the crew and dogs ashore is a joy ride ! and I'm getting fatter and lazier too ! (not to mention poorer buying gas and oil).
Tools- everything I can reasonably carry aboard. If I don't need it,someone else probably will , some for free some for Fee.
Kids- gods greatest gift. need I say more?
TV- your better off w/out one. reading is fundamental, much more educational,and often commercial free ! After all, if I wanted to watch TV , I wouldn't have gone cruising.
guns- no comment, personal choice(I'll take the 5th and back it up w/ the 2nd Amend.) After all,do you think you would actually be able to "drop the Hammer" on somebody. stick w/ the flaregun .
As far as the anchor vs marina thing. - what are you made of ? I love anchoring it's beautiful,peaceful and the price cannot be beat. But as mentioned , no fun if you need to be on time,dry,well dressed,etc. although I've met some sailors who have a clothes rack instead of a back seat in their car and do the quick change ashore. not my first choice for long term.
Of course if your doing the shirt (or skirt) an tie job, you can most likely swing the slip rent/tax. you'll just need to keep looking for a location and situation that fits your tastes/budget/location.
As far as other creature comforts- I have to come clean about my absolute need for ice in my rum,cold milk (or parmalat) and a somewhat regular fresh water shower (the crew is completely up-wind of me on this !).
However , once again ,I've met couples and famlies cruising without either aboard for considerable distances and time frames (6-12 months)
Holding tank- the smaller it is,the more time you'll spend familiarizing yourself with pumpout locations, of course you'll need to take on fresh water and give the crew occasional shore leave anyhow,so what's the difference? Also it gives you a good excuse (if you need one) to weigh anchor regularly and keep the barnacles at bay, you know Sail the boat. After all that is the idea,right? if not maybe your looking for a houseboat or a big stinkpot.
Finally the vessel- everyone seems to have a different view. Some demand peformance,others spaciousness. and you ?
As far as materials-once again personal choice. Obviously wood will be more labor intensive , but steel demands maintenance and upkeep as well. A fiberglass boat does seem to be quite resiliant and as a result cheaper and less demanding of your time. But you cannot beat the beauty of wood, I don't think they will ever stop building wood boats. If I had about 6 sons ( to work on one) I would have one !
I say do what feels right and live within your comfort zone.
Hope to see you on the water. I'll be the vessel anchored w/ a big grin on my face (possibly due to the Rum!)
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Old 07-31-2009
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The rabbit hole deepens...

...as it pretty much always does. Word from the Ket owner is that it DOES have some water in the bilges, and the auto-bilge pump is working 3-5 times a day. According to him, this is due to to last summer, when he filled the seam between the lead and the wood with 3M 5200, which he found out later on, shrinks as it hardens, not filling the void properly. He did a temporary patch with some underwater putty stick, but that's clearly a stopgap, and it's not exactly working perfectly, as evidenced by the bilges.

If no-one snaps this boat up over the next two weeks (an unlikely proposition, unless it's got wet-rot or something nastier than the leaky seal, but the owner has promised to keep me abreast of the situation), I may fly out and have it surveyed, in which case, CD (Brian), I will gladly take you up on your reccomended surveyor! I will also obviously have to haul the ship and repair the bad seal. Ain't no way I'm sailin' 1500 miles with a leak that bad, and one that will surely worsen with the pressures and movement involved in such a journey.

Meanwhile, I'm looking at other boats, and other options. Rent in Annapolis is CHEAP! 1800 for a NICE 4 bedroom colonial with a garage and big deck, with woods and a creek straight off the backyard. At the same time, marina's aren't TERRIBLY expensive, and have a LOT of excellent ammeneties, like pools and stuff.

Boats-wise, there's a decent-looking deal on a Cal 34 in Florida, but the interior needs quite a bit of work, and there's a decent looking deal on an Irwin 32.5 CC at Knapp's Narrows, but I'm not sure I WANT a center cockpit, and I've heard Irwins tend to leak from the windows quite a bit, and that they're not really built for any serious journeying. The Cal 34 seems to be a very good boat, but I'm unsure as to whether I'll have the week or so that I'd need to rebuild so much of the interior before my family will need to live in said interior. (*sigh*, five more posts until I can send you guys links. Mostly, I'm finding these deals on craigslist. Yachtworld seems very overpriced!)

Since it looks like I've got a couple months before the move (things are being delayed - this is a government job, so surprise, surprise), I can move slowly (more slowly than I thought!) on a boat - probably a good thing. This isn't something to rush.

I also want to thank everyone for such a diverse set of opinions, and kind wishes! Joethecobbler, the spoon around my neck isn't silver, ok, well, it's copper plated in silver, and by the time I got it, the silver was mostly worn off. My family isn't rich - mom's a school teacher, stepdad's an artist (and amazing carpenter from whom I've learned most my building and repair skills), Pop's a phone installer (and surfer, who taught me to surf, and repair surfboards), stepmom was a phone installer too (yeah, guess how THEY met? ) before she retired. So yeah, I'm made of pretty stern stuff, and I'm NOT afraid to get my hands dirty - I've maintained a classic motorcycle (1978 Yamaha XS11), maintained and modified my 99 Landrover Discovery, and done nearly everything under the sun to my old VW Bus before I sold it back in 2003. I'm pretty handy, and if I have the time to do something right, I will - especially if Admiral SWMBO considers it a "must-do", because that is the only way I can get her to take the boy and leave me be so I can work, otherwise it's a constant, "when will you be done goofing around in the shop so we can all go have fun together?" *sigh*

The remarks on leaving a TV off the boat or just using a laptop won't work for me. I LOVE to read, and do so voraciously when I can, but as I've mentioned, my business/art is TV/film, so I need to be able to view it in as optimal a way as possible. Were I a painter, I would not want to limit myself to looking at artwork on an iPod or handheld digital device, I'd want to see the work as it was intended to be seen - in a frame, in an art gallery. I can't see every film in the theater because I'm a dad, so I do the best I can with blu-ray and a home theater now. Onboard, this will mean downsizing, and I'm prepared to deal with that, but since I'll be SELLING my current setup, buying a more limited one might actually yield a profit.

Keep 'em crossed for me, I'll be in touch!

Last edited by svartsvensk; 07-31-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 07-31-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svartsvensk View Post
The remarks on leaving a TV off the boat or just using a laptop won't work for me. I LOVE to read, and do so voraciously when I can, but as I've mentioned, my business/art is TV/film, so I need to be able to view it in as optimal a way as possible. Were I a painter, I would not want to limit myself to looking at artwork on an iPod or handheld digital device, I'd want to see the work as it was intended to be seen - in a frame, in an art gallery. I can't see every film in the theater because I'm a dad, so I do the best I can with blu-ray and a home theater now. Onboard, this will mean downsizing, and I'm prepared to deal with that, but since I'll be SELLING my current setup, buying a more limited one might actually yield a profit.

Keep 'em crossed for me, I'll be in touch!
I think you are going to have a difficult time with this. You will either need a very large boat or you will have to do an extreme make-over of your goals and lifestyle. Living aboard as you seem to envision it would be do-able if you get a large trawler or motorsailer but I don't think cruising is in the cards. But then, "Cruising" means different things to different people and I've seen all kinds. Not everyone is as crazy as Laura and I.

On the plus side - Now is a great time to buy a boat
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Old 07-31-2009
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Well, yeah, to have a setup anything like what I've currently got would require a very large boat, but what I'm envisioning is a 5.1 system with very small speakers mounted to the ceiling and subwoofer built in under the starboard bench/berth. The TV I'm thinking of is somewhere between 32" and 37", flatscreen LCD with a narrow bezel mounted above the starboard bench/berth on the wall, or alternately (depending on the boat's layout), mounted to the bulkhead on the port side ahead of the dining area. The PS3 will probably be stashed on the bookshelf along the side, and if you're wondering where the amp for the surround system will go, I intend to use a system purposed for a computer, which have the amplifiers generally built into the woofer, or into a very, very small control unit (like 6"x3"x3").

I've resigned most of my things to being sold, and will be seeking out .pdf versions of my book collection to be kept on my computer and iPhone, with only a few exceptions. DVDs etc will all have to be removed from cases and placed into a large CD binder, taking up about 1/100th of the space. My laptop is a 13" macbook, and takes up very little room. Originally I had planned a "ship's computer" to be integrated with the tv and surround system, but I'm thinking more and more that it's either that or my PS3, and the PS3's only drawbacks in that regard is it's lack of MacOSX, while it's benefits for keeping are its gaming capabilities... I don't intent to lock myself in my boat and spend all my time watching movies and playing video games, of course - I'm a very active, outdoorsy person (who's going insane in Los Angeles), but it's nice to relax and watch a movie in the evening after the boy has gone to sleep.

Last edited by svartsvensk; 07-31-2009 at 02:48 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svartsvensk View Post
Well, yeah, to have a setup anything like what I've currently got would require a very large boat, but what I'm envisioning is a 5.1 system with very small speakers mounted to the ceiling and subwoofer built in under the starboard bench/berth. The TV I'm thinking of is somewhere between 32" and 37", flatscreen LCD with a narrow bezel mounted above the starboard bench/berth on the wall, or alternately (depending on the boat's layout), mounted to the bulkhead on the port side ahead of the dining area. The PS3 will probably be stashed on the bookshelf along the side, and if you're wondering where the amp for the surround system will go, I intend to use a system purposed for a computer, which have the amplifiers generally built into the woofer, or into a very, very small control unit (like 6"x3"x3").

I've resigned most of my things to being sold, and will be seeking out .pdf versions of my book collection to be kept on my computer and iPhone, with only a few exceptions. DVDs etc will all have to be removed from cases and placed into a large CD binder, taking up about 1/100th of the space. My laptop is a 13" macbook, and takes up very little room. Originally I had planned a "ship's computer" to be integrated with the tv and surround system, but I'm thinking more and more that it's either that or my PS3, and the PS3's only drawbacks in that regard is it's lack of MacOSX, while it's benefits for keeping are its gaming capabilities... I don't intent to lock myself in my boat and spend all my time watching movies and playing video games, of course - I'm a very active, outdoorsy person (who's going insane in Los Angeles), but it's nice to relax and watch a movie in the evening after the boy has gone to sleep.
Here is how our TV was done:



- CD
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Old 07-31-2009
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Originally Posted by svartsvensk View Post
and will be seeking out .pdf versions of my book collection to be kept on my computer and iPhone,.
My wife and I use audible dot com for ( audio ) book downloads and I know amazon & sony has readers. my wife has the Sony reader which hold several hundred ( text ) books.

With still doing the 9-5 gig, working on the boat or sailing on the weekends, the audiobook versions downloaded to my Ipod is a great option.
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1978 Tayana 37

Freedom comes when youíre ready to sail away. True freedom comes when you donít have to return


Cut off from the land that bore us, betrayed by the land we find, where the brightest have gone before us and the dullest remain behind, .......but stand to your glasses, steady,.......tis all we have left to prize, raise a cup to the dead already, hurrah for the next that dies
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Old 07-31-2009
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poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about
CD, why do you have 12 cans of Bushes Baked Beans over your TV ??
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1978 Tayana 37

Freedom comes when youíre ready to sail away. True freedom comes when you donít have to return


Cut off from the land that bore us, betrayed by the land we find, where the brightest have gone before us and the dullest remain behind, .......but stand to your glasses, steady,.......tis all we have left to prize, raise a cup to the dead already, hurrah for the next that dies
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