So who packs a weapon on board?

[nordr]

Originally Posted by seafrontiersman

nordr:

Couldn't disagree with you more about the shotgun, it has four distinct advantages:

1. Great firepower at close range.
2. Relative simplicity and robust action.
3. Buckshot won't travel half a mile and kill somone.
4. The sound of someone racking a shell in a shotgun
scares the fertilizer out of bad guys.

I've done over a hundred boarding when I was with the Navy and I was issued a shotgun so I keep one aboard my little slice of heaven. I do agree about having a revolver though I personally use a .357.

Fair winds and following seas!

Michael

seafrontiersman,

I should clarify. My boat (22') is small enough that stowing, retrieving, and then aiming a shotgun is a dangerous endeavor with two people onboard. If I were in the berth and just pointed it at the companionway, sure—I'd **** my pants if I were trespassing. I tend to bunk in the saloon, though, and prefer stowing the revolver under the chart table.

A friend has a 36', which I would feel much more comfortable stowing a shotty in.

[Sandflea]

Originally Posted by nordr

Politics-free response: .38 revolver. Nobody needs a shotgun on the water and a semi-auto is like an over-engineered boat; too many moving parts too far away from a qualified mechanic.

The vast majority of semi-auto handguns are modeled after the old 1911 .45 which are easy to disassemble, reassemble, perform a functions check and reload. Personally, as a professional soldier, I can do all of that in under a minute, blindfolded or in pitch black conditions. I am not bragging, just making the point.. If they are too complicated, then obviously the user has not had enough training and experience to handle one. I would rather 15 rounds ready to fly and not need them than have 6 rounds and wish i didn't have to pause for a reload.

"Of course hollow points will travel through a body. Not all the time obviously. You always need to know where the round may go before it stops. I agree with the rest of it though."

Very true Jerry, hollow points aren't assured to stop in your target, but more likely to than any other round, ball ammo for example. The shooter always needs to be aware of their surroundings.

A firearm is a tool. There are many variants of this tool, all designed for a variety of applications and user experience. Finding the right firearm for yourself is only a small part of the self defense/ hunting subject questioned in this thread. If you decide to carry a firearm, you should be responsible enough to master the tool, especially if used for self defense. So, what are you going to do this weekend? Go sailing or go to the firing range? Food for thought...
Take Care!

Ben

[Elzaar]

A shotgun or .38 in an enclosed space will be loud, but if you are like most people it'll sound like a pop gun if you have adrenaline going ... tunnel vision applies to your ears, as well. I can't say what the actual physical effects are. In the instance that I decide I have to shoot someone in my boat interior, potential hearing loss is probably not going to be high on my list of concerns. I do have some minor hearing loss, but that is from a .50 cal machine gun going off in my ear, not handguns or shotguns. The real life shootings I've been around for sounded like cap guns. The .50 was training when I forgot to put in earplugs on a live exercise and felt like someone was hammering my ear with a hammer.

OC spray cleans up pretty easily. It is organic and if water-based (as most are) it will go away mostly through evaporation and a wipe down, with fabric put through a washing machine. I'm not sure what it would take to get it out of foam and you might have to replace anything absorbent that got totally soaked. CS is a chemical compound and would pretty well toast a boat interior. It is also illegal to possess just about anywhere as an individual, so it's unlikely you'd be using it. SWAT teams try not to depoy either sooner than they have to, but OC spray (at least here) is seen as an inconvenience to neighbors whereas deploying CS is seen as we're buyng the house/apartment/whatever. I agree you would not want to deploy OC in a boat interior if you could avoid it unless you had on a protective mask or at least very good eye protection - like you might have for fiberglass work anyway. A damp rag across your nose and mouth will also help. Check out anarchist' protest websites for a score of homemade solutions. OC works primarily by causing swelling in mucous membranes and eyes. It is harder on some people than others and you can build up some limited resistance through exposure. If you were going to try to deploy it in a boat interior I'd think the best strategy would be to back into your forward cabin and deploy it into the main cabin before quickly closing and locking the door and opening the forward hatch if that was an option.

Let's face it, if all hell breaks loose and you really are fighting for your life your best tool is a gun, but I suggest OC as a possible option for those who are maybe not willing or able to carry a gun, but wanting some level of protection. I'd also point out that it is a continuum of force options for sailors just like police - let people see you on the boat, verbally make clear what you want and what you will do if they don't comply, use OC spray if you have it, then use lethal force if you have to. The more of those steps you can point to having used before you finally shot someone, the better your defense will be if you do. The family may claim their son was merely coming aboard to sell you fish or ask for water, but if the people on the shore heard you yelling to get off the boat, stay out of the cabin (maybe even broadcast over a keyed VHF microphone), then he came through a cloud of OC in the cockpit and his shirt is soaked with OC spray where he's lying with bullet holes in his chest on the floor of your cabin with more OC soaked into the salon cushions - it's going to be a tougher sell for them.

I'm not trying to offer any editorializing or value decisions here. I think there are many ramifications from the decision of how you want to live, what hassles you want to deal with, logistics involved, whether an individual can actually make the decision to kill, and whether they can live with having done so. Those are all individual personal decisions. I'm just trying to give practical input on options to consider.

I think someone else has already mentioned this - but the biggest suggestion I would make to anyone is to have a plan and at least walk through it a few times. It's your home, you know the layout, you know where the tools are to defend yourself. Be mentally prepared to do whatever you have to to win and visualize doing so with a clear decision point that triggers the transition for you. That is probably why I use the attempt to enter the cabin. It is a clear threshold, it is your home in any culture, it is at your strongest defensive point tactically.

Just my thoughts.

[Elzaar]

If you're going to carry a revolver, don't assume it's foolproof. The cylinder will freeze up in wet - especially salty - conditions in fairly short order. A revolver will not fire at all if the cylinder won't rotate. A semi-auto will also be finicky if not well maintained, but will give you one shot (assuming you keep one in the chamber). It's all personal preference, but I prefer the shotgun even in a boat ... you can control the penetration by what rounds you load in what order. Pistol grips, folding stocks, variety of barrels all give you more options depending on your intended uses. I taught my ex - just sit in the corner and point toward the door/hatchway. With non-slug rounds it's about impossible to miss. OTOH, all guns are going to require care and maintenance. What is the effective (accurate) range of a speargun anyway?

[mitiempo]

10 feet underwater is normal - in air probably 50 feet
Brian

[mitiempo]

Here's a good choice from Mossberg:

[nuffoftexas]

Originally Posted by docrn

So who's packing what?

None of your business! Or, come on board uninvited and find out.

Now for the unsolicited editorial... so, here I am reading this thread and listening to Johnny Cash sing "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die". That story was being told from prison by the way. On CNN are hysterical responses to an inconsiderate who insists on excersing his Second Ammendment rights during a Presidential Town Hall meeting. Not what I would consider a wise move, however at least he had the foresight and "intelligence" to advise the appropriate authorities of his intentions. I'm sure he could have cared less about what the fearful of everything were panicking about - not to mention what those from other "peaceful" lands might have been gasping and recursing about. So, here is my response to those of you who have never set foot on a piece of Urban American concrete, and also to those here in The States who hide in their own sanctuary -

We recently hosted two couples, at different times, from Spain who were touring the Cowboy Capital of the World - Bandera, Texas. If you do not assume everyone here is carrying, you will sooner or later have an epiphany regarding this. Do note residential property crime is essentially non-existent here. Texas law allows one to chase anyone holding your stuff across the entire state only to shoot them in the back to retrieve your belongings. Now that's what I call excersing your rights. The cops can't do it. One less bad guy too. Both couples, one mid-twenties and one fortyish, were from Madrid (very large city), and both very progressive and both having somewhat different views. The older couple had no problems with American gun laws. The younger couple was quite taken aback when we advised them we have firearms in the house. I think they wanted to leave, but soon came to their senses realizing we were not going to shoot them and take their stuff. During some discussion regarding the gun thing, this couple was totally floored to find out that carjackings take place - IN THE STATES! - EVERY DAY! We had trouble not laughing as I tried to explain there are carjackings in San Antonio alone most every day. Probably at least fifty per day in the States. As they were retrieving their lips from the floor, we could see the beginnings of that epiphany. The older couple were obviously better informed, and more comfortable in their knowledge, than the younger Utopian Peaceniks. Don't get me wrong. I want world peace too. And I will work for it. But get a grip! Melting down my heaters will not make it happen, and it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. And yes, I do feel "Imagine" was one of the greatest songs ever written. Or "Tick-Tock", and "Chapel of Love" DOH! Sorry!

We are afraid of what we don't understand. And some hide and lash out in response that. If I am afraid of something, I set out to find why and correct it - if possible. If you are one of the former, I suggest you get a grip, read up on some real-world stuff, educate and prepare yourself accordingly for what can really happen, and be confident that you are prepared to confront what might really come your way one day when you least expect it. Perhaps then you won't be so quick to judge others for their diligent preparation. From what I hear, no one is ever prepared to kill another. And, short of human annihalation, bad guys and guns are not going away. So what do we do? I am not afraid, I am prepared... as best I can be. Too bad for the other guy. If he were educated as I was, he never would have brought that knife to a pistol fight (cr. Chris Knight) or even considered encroaching his ways on my life. ...same for the Peaceniks.

Nuff said I guess. Thanks for allowing me to "step in it".

[AE28]

Interesting first post!!!
Paul

[chall03]

Originally Posted by nuffoftexas

None of your business! Or, come on board uninvited and find out.

Now for the unsolicited editorial... so, here I am reading this thread and listening to Johnny Cash sing "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die". That story was being told from prison by the way. On CNN are hysterical responses to an inconsiderate who insists on excersing his Second Ammendment rights during a Presidential Town Hall meeting. Not what I would consider a wise move, however at least he had the foresight and "intelligence" to advise the appropriate authorities of his intentions. I'm sure he could have cared less about what the fearful of everything were panicking about - not to mention what those from other "peaceful" lands might have been gasping and recursing about. So, here is my response to those of you who have never set foot on a piece of Urban American concrete, and also to those here in The States who hide in their own sanctuary -

We recently hosted two couples, at different times, from Spain who were touring the Cowboy Capital of the World - Bandera, Texas. If you do not assume everyone here is carrying, you will sooner or later have an epiphany regarding this. Do note residential property crime is essentially non-existent here. Texas law allows one to chase anyone holding your stuff across the entire state only to shoot them in the back to retrieve your belongings. Now that's what I call excersing your rights. The cops can't do it. One less bad guy too. Both couples, one mid-twenties and one fortyish, were from Madrid (very large city), and both very progressive and both having somewhat different views. The older couple had no problems with American gun laws. The younger couple was quite taken aback when we advised them we have firearms in the house. I think they wanted to leave, but soon came to their senses realizing we were not going to shoot them and take their stuff. During some discussion regarding the gun thing, this couple was totally floored to find out that carjackings take place - IN THE STATES! - EVERY DAY! We had trouble not laughing as I tried to explain there are carjackings in San Antonio alone most every day. Probably at least fifty per day in the States. As they were retrieving their lips from the floor, we could see the beginnings of that epiphany. The older couple were obviously better informed, and more comfortable in their knowledge, than the younger Utopian Peaceniks. Don't get me wrong. I want world peace too. And I will work for it. But get a grip! Melting down my heaters will not make it happen, and it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. And yes, I do feel "Imagine" was one of the greatest songs ever written. Or "Tick-Tock", and "Chapel of Love" DOH! Sorry!

We are afraid of what we don't understand. And some hide and lash out in response that. If I am afraid of something, I set out to find why and correct it - if possible. If you are one of the former, I suggest you get a grip, read up on some real-world stuff, educate and prepare yourself accordingly for what can really happen, and be confident that you are prepared to confront what might really come your way one day when you least expect it. Perhaps then you won't be so quick to judge others for their diligent preparation. From what I hear, no one is ever prepared to kill another. And, short of human annihalation, bad guys and guns are not going away. So what do we do? I am not afraid, I am prepared... as best I can be. Too bad for the other guy. If he were educated as I was, he never would have brought that knife to a pistol fight (cr. Chris Knight) or even considered encroaching his ways on my life. ...same for the Peaceniks.

Nuff said I guess. Thanks for allowing me to "step in it".

Feel free to step in whenever you like. This site thrives on unsolicited editorials.
As far as they go, yours was one of the more reasonable and well constructed. I am from Australia, things are alot different here to Texas and so my views on this are probably more aligned with the younger Utopian Peaceniks. What you say however does makes alot of sense. My mind is by no means made up on this but I do take your point.

Welcome to Sailnet.

[NolaSafari]

I live in New Orleans, of course I carry a gun sometimes two. Whats the problem?