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  #271  
Old 09-03-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downeast450 View Post
I don't want to have to decide to use one for self defense but using the BB gun as a message seems like an idea.

What do you think?

George
Are you suicidal? A message to whom? I'm new here and don't know you, so I'm thinking this is really a troll. Didn't someone say something about bringing a knife to a pistol fight? Please tell me you're not that stupid. If this is so, you absolutely should not carry anything. Trust your instincts, and legs, to get you the hell out of there. And get that stupid BB gun out of the house before you decide to try and "scare" someone with it.

...after my last somewhat "encouraging" post to this thread, I guess I had to write this so as to maybe keep George's widow from suing me.
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  #272  
Old 09-04-2009
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A BB gun will probably get you killed.



I have a 26mm military surplus flare gun (1" bore = 4 gauge) that I also have a 26 mm to 12 ga. shell adapter for.

12 ga. flares (a lot cheaper than 25/26 mm) or a regular shotgun shell fits in the adapter and since the gun (steel) and adapter (machined aluminum) are made for heavy loads, it doubles as a great flare gun and one hell of an intimidating looking actual weapon. Short range is great, distance isn't good.


I have used BB and #9 shot loads to test my old one and both spread well but 00 Buckshot or slugs kick a tad too much....





$39 + shipping.
German 26.5MM Geco Flare Gun - Very Good Part #FLARE-GECO2
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  #273  
Old 09-04-2009
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Now I can see where it might get “sticky” traveling abroad, but isn’t there some kind of international law. I know the Bahamas has no problem with it if you’re a licensed USCG Captain.

Last edited by southwindphoto; 09-04-2009 at 04:38 PM. Reason: edit
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  #274  
Old 09-04-2009
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Now I can see where it might get “sticky” traveling abroad, but isn’t there some kind of international law.

Last edited by southwindphoto; 09-04-2009 at 04:38 PM.
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  #275  
Old 09-04-2009
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Stupid indeed!

I agree it would not be smart to show up at a gun fight with a BB gun. I am not planning to show up at any gun fights at all and that is the point. Remember the cruising couple who were boarded off Nam last March? She survived but the thugs cut his throat and threw him over board. They were local construction workers who saw an opportunity, stole an inflatable and rowed out to the yacht with knives to steal money and or credit cards. That is the type of piracy being encountered most often today. I was in Singapore when it happened and it occurred to me that if those thugs had seen an AK-47 (replica) hanging in reach in the cockpit they might have aborted their plan. It would also be a legal "decoration". My interest in suggesting a decoy is averting the need to add one of my guns to the gear aboard my boat. I appreciate your concern for my wife.

I have considered building a couple of secret compartments on the boat in strategic locations to stash a Glock or two for emergencies.

Stay safe and avoid dangerous situations. I guess you don't believe that there is any value to be gained from using a deterrent decoy? It isn't an invitation to a shoot out, but a warning, "Don't mess with this boat". What would be your reaction to seeing an obviously well armed boat, attack it?

George

Last edited by downeast450; 09-04-2009 at 08:49 PM.
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  #276  
Old 09-04-2009
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george hidden compartments can get you in a lot of trouble with the US coast guard
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  #277  
Old 09-05-2009
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I am having trouble getting anyone to consider the point I was originally trying to make; that of displaying a potential counter threat to some bad actor who is making a decision about targeting my boat; without violating any laws or increasing the risks to me. I agree that having an illegal gun stashed is not a good idea. I can carry in those states that honor my concealed weapons permit but those locations are not the ones we are concerned about.

As someone who grew up in NY in the 60s I learned that appearance is 90+% of an effective personal defense. If you look vulnerable you are much more likely to invite the attention of some creep who is looking for an opportunity. If you look like you are capable of returning any bad behavior you might be the recipient of, the potential "perp" will look elsewhere for someone to hassle. Sending the message that I might be a bad choice of a score has certainly saved me in many potentially "dangerous" situations. All of those kinds of human interactions were dependent on the impression I brought to the situation. Since personal demeanor isn't something you can count on being interpreted by some thug looking at your boat through binoculars an apparent reverse threat might discourage some threats.

Why not send a message? I am not suggesting that we hang mock ups of Claymores from our rails. That might not be a bad idea though. How about fenders that look like anti personnel mines? I may have a good idea here. Ha!

George
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  #278  
Old 09-05-2009
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Downeast, I get your thought process. My own follows it to some extent... The part about making sure the bad stuff happens to someone else, not you and yours. And the concept of being able to (in a totally legal fashion) make a show of force that would deter some percentage of bad guys is appealing.

My own common sense tells me it would work. After all if *I* were going to make a hit on a boat I would plan on doing it when I hoped no one was aboard. The appearance of someone toting a formidable weapon would cause me to rethink my plan and I would be making my way to shore or back to my own boat post and haste.

But the point here might be that it is not someone like you or I who we would be facing. and every person I have ever discussed the options of armed vs unarmed has had some consistent comments.

Don't carry a weapon if you don't know how to use it.
Don't carry a weapon if you are not prepared to use it.

The thought seems to be that the presence of weapons may escalate the tension in a situation. If you pull your gun, they may pull their gun (or knife or whatever) and then what are you going to do? Hit them over the head with the stock of your fake?

I don't know.

The idea of a perfectly legal and common flare gun that you can convert to an up close shotgun seems more appealing to me. Getting it thru customs shouldn't present a problem. Some brief research reveals that the company which was making the adapter seems to no longer be in business/offering that product. So that may not be a viable option, I don't know.

This got me reading a bit and there have been some pretty grim situations with private yachts being attacked, but I would guess petty and or amateur attacks at anchor are more common risks than high speed chases with pirates in the gulf of Aden. Against a group of professional baddies very few of us would stand a chance. Good reason to not sail that area unaccompanied. That would be the "making yourself safe" part of my philosophy.

This IS a complicated subject. And there is no clear *right* answer, as there is no way to know exactly what you are preparing to face. And hindsight will always be so 20/20, if you are alive to see it.

I don't know what I want to do when we head out. We will be (most likely) sailing the Pacific and Caribbean. There is some tiny chance of a trip to Australia, but that is in the very faintest stages of possibility. In those areas I don't know...

One interesting idea is that you carry a very CHEAP gun until you get to port and then you throw it away. Avoids the customs issue. but only good for the first leg of the trip.
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Last edited by sarafinadh; 09-05-2009 at 03:34 PM.
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  #279  
Old 09-07-2009
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Thank you for listening to what I thought I was suggesting. I didn't think my idea included redirecting the thugs to others who might not appear as vulnerable as I but I suppose it would result in the predator seeking other prey.

I chose to live in rural, coastal, Maine for 25 years. One of the "strengths" I discovered that was important to my success in that "frontier" was appearing to be willing and capable of returning any transgressions with enthusiasm and finality.

My first day in my coastal farm, on a dead end dirt town road, a very threatening individual cruised by my front door in his old pickup, grinned, turned around in my yard and left his tire marks in the grass as a greeting. I followed him back to his house and left him a donut in his yard as a response. I never saw him again.

Appearing and being willing to defend yourself is a normal survival trait exhibited by any successful member of this Animal Kingdom. Being willing to shoot someone who is threatening your life is certainly the bottom line. I would like to think that sending the message that, as a target, I would be a very bad choice is what I will try to engineer in the hope that it will eliminate the need for the ultimate confrontation. Perhaps , as a former boat builder, I can secrete the final solution in such a way that my wife and I will be the only ones capable of revealing it. It won't be a cheap solution but as capable a one, or two, as I can manage.

Be safe, take care of your selves and enjoy the world.

George

George

Last edited by downeast450; 09-07-2009 at 06:54 AM.
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  #280  
Old 09-07-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafinadh View Post

The idea of a perfectly legal and common flare gun that you can convert to an up close shotgun seems more appealing to me. Getting it thru customs shouldn't present a problem. Some brief research reveals that the company which was making the adapter seems to no longer be in business/offering that product. So that may not be a viable option, I don't know.rt of my philosophy.
12-Gauge Converter from ORION

It's still avail. and in stock!
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