So who packs a weapon on board? - Page 63 - SailNet Community
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post #621 of 648 Old 06-03-2011
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"are they ripping stuff apart?"

The problem is you never know until you arrive.

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
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post #622 of 648 Old 06-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistonbully View Post
You are right it's impossible to answer. I more or less meant on a normal basis ,, are they ripping stuff apart? or just looking for Fruits veggies and animals.. Sure if they suddenly think I'm a coke smuggler i'm going to be getting torn apart.. But i meant normal searches.
I'm not a customs officer or a cop in a foreign country. I am, however, a former Seattle Police Officer. Here is what I can tell you.

No, they aren't prescient but given reason, they will search. What is the reason? Well, how good a citizen are you? Do you have all your papers? Are they all in order? How good are you at lying and looking calm about it. How are you at poker? Can you look just nervous enough but not too nervous.

I can't tell you what will set off a full search. I can tell you that, if they think you are hiding something, and they are determined, they will find it.

I will tell you that your normal cop will be less trained and less diligent than customs. I would not ever screw with customs. They have almost unlimited power and you have zero rights.

So you have to ask yourself, what is worth hiding, and where. Will you risk it?

I can tell you that, when I go offshore, I will think long and hard about going armed. I don't know yet. Like you have expressed, I have some real problems about going out in the big empty world without some way of defending myself. Now, that doesn't mean a gun. It could be many things but, I will not go unprepared.

Good luck with your decision.

"There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats." -- Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole)

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post #623 of 648 Old 06-04-2011
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Let's assume you have a weapon on board and either never get searched, or never get very thoroughly searched. If you never have to use the gun, there most likely will never be any consequences. However, that's isn't why you smuggled an illegal firearm into another country in the first place. What happens if you actually shoot someone, or even just scare someone off by waving a pistol around? NOW you are probably going to have to answer some very tough and important questions posed to you by some people who probably won't look to kindly upon foreigners trafficking weapons into their country (and "trafficking weapons" is how their legal system will look at your actions).

IF you wind up shooting a real thug, the local officials MIGHT look the other way with regards to the weapon, or they might not. In many parts of the world one MIGHT be able to grease a few palms and get out from under the local legal system without too much trouble, but I wouldn't count on it. Or, the local constabulary MIGHT be grateful to you for getting rid of someone who has been a problem for a long time, but I wouldn't count on that either. Even if they are secretly happy that they have one less local ne'er-do-well to worry about, they are likely to frown on your shooting one of their own and/or see an opportunity to extract a whole lot of cash from some "rich gingo yachtie". In any case, they are much less likely to get in trouble for throwing a gun-running, cowboy, americano into jail than they are for looking the other way (and in many parts of the word, once you are in their legal system it ain't easy to get out of their legal system)

But, what if you panic and shoot some kid who's trying to pinch your dingy or its outboard at 2am? Do you think that the local officials are going to "look the other way" in that case? What if the kid is the nephew of the mayor or police captain? You just shot (maybe killed) a relative of a local official in a foreign port with a weapon you aren't even supposed to have. What do you think your chances are of seeing US soil any time soon? Do you think the US Embassy is going to do much for someone who knowingly smuggled a gun into the country and then shot a local over an outboard (or even the whole boat)?

The bottom line is that if you bring a firearm into many countries without declaring it you will be risking a world of hurt. If you never have to use it, you might very well get away with it --- but, that isn't why you brought it. If you use it UNDER VIRTUALLY ANY CIRCUMSTANCES you will very likely loose your freedom for a very long time, and your boat forever.

Never forget them. Do something to prevent it from happening again.
Charlotte Bacon, Daniel Barden, Rachel Davino, Olivia Josephine Gay, Ana M. Marquez-Greene, Dylan Hockley, Dawn Hochsprung, Madeleine F. Hsu, Catherine V. Hubbard, Chase Kowalski, Jesse Lewis, James Mattioli , Grace McDonnell, Anne Marie Murphy, Emilie Parker, Jack Pinto, Noah Pozner, Caroline Previdi, Jessica Rekos, Avielle Richman, Lauren Rousseau, Mary Sherlach, Victoria Soto, Benjamin Wheeler, Allison N. Wyatt

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post #624 of 648 Old 06-04-2011
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Dogs.....

Don't know about other countries, Australia and New Zealand Customs officials bring sniffer Dogs on board who are trained to sniff out drugs, weapons etc. How do you fancy your chances against a sniffer dog?


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post #625 of 648 Old 06-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erps View Post
The study mentioned a couple pages back indicates:



I imagine our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq could put this information to good use. Just think how much safer they would be without their small arms. Just having them in the vicinity is apparently hazardous.

Along the same line, I've noticed that the presence of fire helmets and fire trucks are directly correlated with fire related injuries. Seems pretty clear that fire trucks need to be further restricted.
I did three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq as an infantryman and obviously guns have a place there, even Among the population.
Back home, I do own a handgun, but it stays in the lock box until I put on a pack and head off hiking in bear, cougar, meth lab, and pot growing country.
On a boat, the most likely place you will need it is in a harbor. US harbors have local police, and it's best not to tote guns into foreign countries.
While I am certainly no stranger to gun violence, feel comfortable carrying one in the woods, I just don't think they have any place on a boat. In us waters, you are pretty safe. Foreign places it's likely illegal even if you aren't so safe. Besides, in most circumstances a baseball bat can be effective as a handgun.
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post #626 of 648 Old 06-04-2011
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Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
Let's assume you have a weapon on board and either never get searched, or never get very thoroughly searched. If you never have to use the gun, there most likely will never be any consequences. However, that's isn't why you smuggled an illegal firearm into another country in the first place. What happens if you actually shoot someone, or even just scare someone off by waving a pistol around? NOW you are probably going to have to answer some very tough and important questions posed to you by some people who probably won't look to kindly upon foreigners trafficking weapons into their country (and "trafficking weapons" is how their legal system will look at your actions).

IF you wind up shooting a real thug, the local officials MIGHT look the other way with regards to the weapon, or they might not. In many parts of the world one MIGHT be able to grease a few palms and get out from under the local legal system without too much trouble, but I wouldn't count on it. Or, the local constabulary MIGHT be grateful to you for getting rid of someone who has been a problem for a long time, but I wouldn't count on that either. Even if they are secretly happy that they have one less local ne'er-do-well to worry about, they are likely to frown on your shooting one of their own and/or see an opportunity to extract a whole lot of cash from some "rich gingo yachtie". In any case, they are much less likely to get in trouble for throwing a gun-running, cowboy, americano into jail than they are for looking the other way (and in many parts of the word, once you are in their legal system it ain't easy to get out of their legal system)

But, what if you panic and shoot some kid who's trying to pinch your dingy or its outboard at 2am? Do you think that the local officials are going to "look the other way" in that case? What if the kid is the nephew of the mayor or police captain? You just shot (maybe killed) a relative of a local official in a foreign port with a weapon you aren't even supposed to have. What do you think your chances are of seeing US soil any time soon? Do you think the US Embassy is going to do much for someone who knowingly smuggled a gun into the country and then shot a local over an outboard (or even the whole boat)?

The bottom line is that if you bring a firearm into many countries without declaring it you will be risking a world of hurt. If you never have to use it, you might very well get away with it --- but, that isn't why you brought it. If you use it UNDER VIRTUALLY ANY CIRCUMSTANCES you will very likely loose your freedom for a very long time, and your boat forever.

Nuff said, My guns shall stay in the states. I was already thinking I would just have my brother hold on to them for me. I'll just speer the bastard trying to steal my dingy at 2am!
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post #627 of 648 Old 06-04-2011
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Hey Piston, nice to talk to you again.

But I gotta take a different view than you. If it's at all possible, I'll have a firearm with me on my boat. Those Christian missionaries a few months back, yes, the dead ones, didn't have a firearm. If they did, it's most likely they would be alive, as pirates are inherently predators seeking the weak and unarmed to prey on.

Don't know, to each his own, but as for me and my boat, I will trust in God-

and my weapon!


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post #628 of 648 Old 06-04-2011
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I hear you Jace, Believe me I really really really want to have my pistol at the very least. And I think eventually I may. But I will wait until i'm in more hostile waters or planning to be and just pick up another tactical 12 gauge before leaving on that trip and roll with that. I can check it in at customs if i'm really worried about a certain country wanting to charge me instead of letting me defend myself. I can always try to explain the 12 gauge away as a "Recreational skeet shooter". and see how it goes from there.
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post #629 of 648 Old 06-05-2011
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Very good post, PB. However things happen in unplanned places. If we actually KNEW things would happen we would not go at all so I personally recommend always having your Tac 12 with you, along with good training for you and your crew. Along with a good SOP of course.

Jerry

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post #630 of 648 Old 06-05-2011
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Good thinking PB.

Along those lines, Jerry, there is a weapon made by Marlin called a Guide Gun. It's a beautiful piece in SS in a 45-70 cal. Better have plenty of cash, though. It's up there.

My uncle, who was a dealer, told me the 45-70 caliber was made so that the chamber can accept, along with the center fire solid bullets, a 4-10gauge shotgun round. I plan to try to get a Black bear in Alaska at some point, so such a big round would be of good use, and it severs well as protection against Grizzlies. With that rifle taking the 4-10 shotgun round as well, I can get some small game too, when it's available.

Now, I was thinking. If the authorities in foreign waters would look at a shotgun, especially one of such a small round as the 4-10, as rather mild when it comes to guns, I would merely say, "Yeah, got that there little shotgun for rabbits and ducks, in case I run out of provisions" and not show them the 3+ inch long projectiles that will blow a hole the size of a dinner plate in a 9 foot Grizzly, and hope they are ignorant enough of American firearms to buy it.

It's a chance, but hey, so is life.


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