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  #11  
Old 09-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra160 View Post
You have to remember I am pilot. I take on this responsibility each time I take off. I fly all over the US with my family, kids and grandkids. It is a huge responsibility, but one that is well worth it. Have you ever seen Niagara Falls from the air? I have been there twice on the ground and was not that impressed. the time I flew over it though opens your eyes to a whole new experience. Flying to the Bahamas in my four seater is not out of the question for me so I would not think that sailing there would be any different.

Each time you get into a car you put yourself at risk. In my opinion far more risk that if you take off in your own plane. Done correct I think sailing can be even less risk.

Dan
I do not fly but I know that there are differences between flying and sailing that cannot be ignored. If you fly you must land before you run out of gas or the pilot falls asleep. In an airplane the pilot is in control of all aspects of the flight. In theory he could delegate navigation but he need not(and probably shouldn't) do so. Flying is fast and short, compared to sailing which is slow and long. Native competence and acquired skill are important in both, but the long durations of sailing, that require cycles of sleeping, eating, and sailing require patience and cooperation of all on board. It is a mistake to believe that need not rely on your crew. Flying is travelling, sailing is moving slowly while you live your life.
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2009
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please also consider that should anything happen to you while you are at sea if she has no basic knowledge you will both be in a pickle. possibly a fatal one.

Even if your experience leads you to believe your wife will not ever be "crew" it would perhaps make sense for her to be a knowledgeable trained passenger so in the event she needs to get outta the deck chair and get yer bottom back to port she can.

Additionally her mind set might be a bit different cruising than vacationing. It might not, but the possibility exists that she may experience cruising less as a vacation and more as a lifestyle, in which case her "I am on vacation, don't ask me to do anything" might turn into "I am bored with sitting around, what can I put my hand to around here?"

Besides, sailing is fun. She likes fun doesn't she?
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Old 09-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordo View Post
I do not fly but I know that there are differences between flying and sailing that cannot be ignored. If you fly you must land before you run out of gas or the pilot falls asleep. In an airplane the pilot is in control of all aspects of the flight. In theory he could delegate navigation but he need not(and probably shouldn't) do so. Flying is fast and short, compared to sailing which is slow and long. Native competence and acquired skill are important in both, but the long durations of sailing, that require cycles of sleeping, eating, and sailing require patience and cooperation of all on board. It is a mistake to believe that need not rely on your crew. Flying is travelling, sailing is moving slowly while you live your life.
The two are closer than you think. Planning is maybe the biggest part of the equation. Flying may be quick but you can still be in the air for over five hours. The Bahamas are only 50 miles away. How long does it usually take to go 50 miles? When you fly you spend the night before sometimes days before planning the trip/route. You download weather and charts, make decisions replan and have contingency plans. I planned a trip to NH from WI once going over and above the lakes through MI. Around 3 hours the night before. In the morning weather had moved in and I had to change and go down and around following the front.

If you have to rely on a crew how do they do it alone?

Dan
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Old 09-15-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafinadh View Post
please also consider that should anything happen to you while you are at sea if she has no basic knowledge you will both be in a pickle. possibly a fatal one.

Even if your experience leads you to believe your wife will not ever be "crew" it would perhaps make sense for her to be a knowledgeable trained passenger so in the event she needs to get outta the deck chair and get yer bottom back to port she can.

Additionally her mind set might be a bit different cruising than vacationing. It might not, but the possibility exists that she may experience cruising less as a vacation and more as a lifestyle, in which case her "I am on vacation, don't ask me to do anything" might turn into "I am bored with sitting around, what can I put my hand to around here?"

Besides, sailing is fun. She likes fun doesn't she?
I did not say she did not want to crew, I said she would not be able to. The funny thing is she is rather athletic for a girl. We golf and play tennis, she is able to play softball and bowl. She just does not have that ability to think or do. It also is not a case of me not wanting her to learn. I am a very good teacher. I have each of the passengers that sit in the right seat learn to fly the plane for the first 1/2 hr. She would learn to control the boat just as she has learned to control the plane. The problem is that when the Shxx hits the fan all that learning goes south in a hand basket. You know that feeling when you know how to drive and have been driving for years, then when that truck comes out of nowhere you just cover your eyes and hope for the best. Have you ever been on a trip and said just stay on this road, then woke up two ours later and found you were going in the wrong direction.

Also she is not stupid she is a nurse. She can learn anything from a book, she just cannot apply it. I am not kidding when I say if I was hurt she would be the last person I would want to rely on for help. Even better she is the education coordinator at the hospital. We will be just fine, we have done this before. It is more self confidence than anything. I don't know what to do so I will just do nothing. Tell her what to do and she is fine. She does not need a certificate to do that. I have done some sailing and it is not that different than flying. Neither one is all that hard, it is more reliant on decisions than anything. Yes skill makes you a better sailor just as skill makes you a better pilot. If you do not have the decision skills you will not last long at either. Many a skilled pilot has hit the ground because of bad decisions.

Dan
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Old 09-15-2009
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I would strongly recommend that you both take sailing instruction, but separately. You will both need to know how to sail the boat while at sea, even if you do most of the sailing work. And taking her lessons separate from you will relieve her of any spousal pressure. Husbands trying to teach wives golf, skiing or sailing are just asking for disharmony, and sometimes worse. Don't ask me how I know this.

I can't believe that she is not able to "think and do." The fact that she plays sports and functions as a nurse says that she can do both. And nurses are usually quite adept at doing a wide range of things that require thinking, doing, and being resourceful and creative. Their jobs require such skills just to be able to survive in the field. I know. I'm a nurse.
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  #16  
Old 09-15-2009
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Agree with saildork, the wife should take a few courses with out the Husband in this case for sure.

Cobra160, I do get a very strong feeling that you are describing yourself as what many of us see as the more typical vacation charter person. The guy in total command and always at the helm while other thought to be lesser (but typically more difficult and critical) duties are passed on to the underlings with generally lots of shouting and hurt feeling occurring along the way. Hope this is not true.....

We often see women on boats who are very capable of being capable crew mates but are subjugated by others for various reasons. We also see these "incapable" crew mates excel once out from under the direct control of the husbands who often don't have any idea they are doing the over control AKA Captain Bligh role.

Of the thousands of post I've seen, I fear you will not have a fair shot at a great experience until you ... shall we say "learn" to depend on your crew. In this specific area, the difference between flying (hours)and sailing a boat for extended periods (days/Weeks/ Months) is totally different. While many people do single hand, it is different when others are aboard and not bringing all crew members into you circle of trust and providing training for them is a safety risk for them, the boat and yourself.... if you get my drift!
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck View Post
Agree with saildork, the wife should take a few courses with out the Husband in this case for sure.

Cobra160, I do get a very strong feeling that you are describing yourself as what many of us see as the more typical vacation charter person. The guy in total command and always at the helm while other thought to be lesser (but typically more difficult and critical) duties are passed on to the underlings with generally lots of shouting and hurt feeling occurring along the way. Hope this is not true.....

We often see women on boats who are very capable of being capable crew mates but are subjugated by others for various reasons. We also see these "incapable" crew mates excel once out from under the direct control of the husbands who often don't have any idea they are doing the over control AKA Captain Bligh role.

Of the thousands of post I've seen, I fear you will not have a fair shot at a great experience until you ... shall we say "learn" to depend on your crew. In this specific area, the difference between flying (hours)and sailing a boat for extended periods (days/Weeks/ Months) is totally different. While many people do single hand, it is different when others are aboard and not bringing all crew members into you circle of trust and providing training for them is a safety risk for them, the boat and yourself.... if you get my drift!
Thank you for all the help, I do however think that after 30 years of marriage I know my wife better than you do. Especially since you have never met her.

I have gone through training with her as a ski patroller (This is an EMT on the hill) so to speak. I passed first time with out so much as a hiccup. I helped her through the next two years (Lots of crying on her part). As a husband I thought they were too hard on her, but others seethings that I did not. indecision was more than likely one of them. She went through flight ground school with my daughter and had a good time at that but again that is book work. Not a problem for her at all. Many have said before that the husband should not teach the wife. Yet I know my wife better than someone else and can teach her far better than some stranger. I instruct for flying, golf, skiing, snowboarding, and many other things that people would like to learn to do. I have taught her how to do many things. You are still under the assumption that she even wants to learn (Or take the class). We were going to take diving lessons while in Hawaii but she decided at the last minute that she would not be able to pass and we had to drop the plans.

Believe me when I say I do not want to do this for a vacation. I would much rather sell everything I own and live where the wind blows me. I know to you I sound conceded. I will tell you a little story so as maybe to help.

I was coming off back surgery and needed some help or something. Something medical I think it was. My daughter (really my daughter in law but after my son died we adopted her as she had no other family) was over to her friends house. I had called over to talk to her and the friend just suggested that I ask Cindy (Wife) I laughed and said yeah right. The friend was about to say "that was not nice" until my daughter said the same thing.
Some people just do not have the ability or desire to learn certain things. This is a nurse that if you ask her what to do in an emergency situation or just general medical situation will say "Don't ask me".

I know to you I sound like a blow hard but you do not know me or my wife. I think a benefit of doubt is in order. At least until you get to know me.

If I had to describe my self so someone would understand me it would be; I would live up in Alaska on a uninhabited lake in a cabin I built. I would do this with little or no supplies. Just the tools I would need to survive. I would be happy doing this. If I would describe Cindy a tent would not be her first choice, Cancun would top her list, condo on the beach. Not just sitting around though, she is very active. Tennis, golf, volley ball, dancing. Sitting around she does not do. She is just not the person that is going to grab the sheet in an emergency. She will just sit there and look at it. If you tell her to grab it she will. She is not the person who will get out of the car and help at a car accident, she will call 911 though. As long as she does not have to make any decisions she is fine. I can plan a whole trip and as long as I have fun things for her to do we will be fine.

You are right about one thing I am a control person. Everyone was shocked when I got my pilots license. They all thought I was afraid to fly because I did not. I said I was not afraid to fly, I was afraid to have someone else fly me. This is why we get along so well, I like to control and she does not. Something as simple as calling the taxi after we land while I'm securing the plane. It will not happen.

Those typical lesser duties like cooking and cleaning will be done by me. (Hold this heading while I go make us some supper).

One last thing, I am not telling her she cannot take lessons she just will not. She will love to go along while I take lessons though.

Dan
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Old 09-15-2009
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Dan,

Appreciate your response and the history. I share your dream of sailing/cruising as a lifestyle, living on the boat, visiting new and different places.... It can be idyllic, I'm sure. And I give you the benefit of the doubt on knowing your wife. I did not want to imply otherwise.

Reading through your posts, I can tell that the cruising life is your dream, but I can't tell if it is Cindy's dream. Is she committed to this idea or is she going along without knowing what it will really mean to go out on the big blue in a small boat? Or is she resistant to the idea?

If you sail off by yourself, at least you only have you and the boat to worry about. With a non-participating passenger, you are now responsible for all 3 of you. And if one of you becomes unable to function, you could be in serious trouble. If she goes along for the ride, but doesn't really want to be there, any problems (relationally, physically, technically, any) will be magnified tremendously just by the fact that you are out there, surrounded by water, 24/7, with the nearest land being directly below your boat. I wouldn't want anyone to be in that situation.

I don't know... it just sounds to me like your plan has a high probability of failure, and a low probability of success as currently envisioned. Just my opinion.

Pat
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Old 09-15-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra160 View Post
The Bahamas are only 50 miles away. How long does it usually take to go 50 miles?
Dan
Figure an average boat speed (through the water) of 6 kts/hr (that's generous). Figure the gulf stream is pushing you NORTH an avg of 3 kt/hr.

ASSUME beautiful weather, no storms, wind in your favor.

You're looking at aprox 10 hrs travel time.

When you travel on a boat, cruising, plan in terms of DAYS of travel, not HOURS.

Whole different ball game. Read some blogs of folks who are doing it to get a sense of the parameters and level of effort.
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Old 09-15-2009
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10 hours, and that's when things are favorable. I usually make it in 6 hours, but I sail a completely different beast just as MMR does. Last summer it took 17, because things were not favorable, and it wasn't an easy trip. Guest were puking, and thinking htey would die!

It's possible you need to charter with a captain, and tell him you want to sail in some snot. Do this for a week, and see how the plans may, or may not change. Get on a delivery going the wrong way at the wrong time of year.

You haven't mentioned a thing about any sailing experience. I don't think you have one wee bit of an idea what you are up against. Do you fly through tornadoes? I think not, but at times you are obliged to sail through them. You probably fly over, or around storms? You mention sailing through the canal, and up to Alaska. You may very well be sailing in storms lasting days.

You need a serious reality check. You need to humble yourself just a wee bit, and take some lessons. Just because you can fly. That doesn't mean you can sail. Keep us posted on your progress. It's not the first time we on the forums have read this kind of strategy. Unfortunately these are usually the ones picked up by freighters, because they want to go home......i2f
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