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post #11 of 19 Old 11-30-2009 Thread Starter
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Unfortunately I think being honest, we would struggle to cruise long term on something like a Top Hat, and that is a statement much more about us than the boat......

Sadly though if we were willing to do it in something like a Top Hat we would probably be out there now...

I have never sailed on or seen a Top Hat up close, they do seem like very capable boats, but a circumnavigation is really something.

How long ago did you you do the Top end TD??
Thirty years back mate. It wasn't a long term cruise. I had a mate who was up there from Sydney and I joined the boat for awhile. He was headed for Europe but he never made it, ended up back in Oz. Not the boats fault, the guy turned out to be a complete fruitcake.

We seriously considered doing an Australian cruise in a Compass 28 (actually a Northerner, which was the C28s predecessor) early 1980s but after a bit of short term stuff decided even that was too small to live on.

I reckon that for a young couple mid thirties is quite doable. I know that if I was in my twenties or thirties that I'd happily set off in out 34'er but I also know that at my age (50's) I need a bit more room to move. Classic example being v-berth. Once upon a time I'd simply do a backward roll to get out, now its a bit difficult.

Living on the VDS for a month or so is fine but I know that full time I'd struggle. (need bigger galley, decent shower, roomier main cabin). That said I still would be quite content with forty odd feet though ease of handling is the prime consideration and there would be the odd 45'er that is easier to handle than some 40s. Rig is probably more important than length. As another example I wish our VDS34 was the fractional rather than the masthead rig. Interestingly enough I once swore I would never have a fractional rig, have done a complete about face on that. Small headsails are the go for a couple. We even spend most of our time under our number two rather than one cos it is so much easier to trim.

Andrew B (Malö 39 Classic)

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett.
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post #12 of 19 Old 11-30-2009
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I guess this is one of the things we do both worry about.

My wife and I both love sailing, and love being on the water however a week together on our little Supersonic 27 can sometimes be an ordeal....

This does come down to some pretty obvious issues like that we have no refrigeration, and a chronic lack of storage, basically we are cruising on a boat not really built or fitted out for any real cruising....and we have certainly enjoyed our longer charters on larger vessels but we do still wonder how we would go living together on a boat for say six months to a year.

Interesting to hear what you say about fractional vs masthead. I had heard that 'masthead was a must for cruising'.

'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



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post #13 of 19 Old 12-01-2009 Thread Starter
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I guess this is one of the things we do both worry about.

My wife and I both love sailing, and love being on the water however a week together on our little Supersonic 27 can sometimes be an ordeal....

This does come down to some pretty obvious issues like that we have no refrigeration, and a chronic lack of storage, basically we are cruising on a boat not really built or fitted out for any real cruising....and we have certainly enjoyed our longer charters on larger vessels but we do still wonder how we would go living together on a boat for say six months to a year.

Interesting to hear what you say about fractional vs masthead. I had heard that 'masthead was a must for cruising'.
So is having a full keel.

Seriously though have a look at Beth Leonard and Evans Starzinger's Hawk.
Fin keel, spade rudder, fractional rig.

S/V Hawk

Those two have pretty much done it all. I'd reckon they know a thing or two.

It's not that the old wisdom is wrong its more that times change, other options present themselves and we all need to make sure we are not sticking with the 'tried and true' simply because the old books say we should. There are still people out there who will swear blind that Spray is the perfect cruising boat and they do that simply on the basis that Slocum did what he did with that boat. Reality is that Spray and Slocum achieved what they did at least as much because Slocum was the master seaman that he was, not because Spray was the epitome of a cruising sailing boat.

The ease of handling that a modern fractional rig gives a short handed crew cannot be dismissed out of hand and I'm pretty sure most naval architects would agree with me.

(Just my opinion btw. I'm no oracle.)

Andrew B (Malö 39 Classic)

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post #14 of 19 Old 12-01-2009
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To weigh in on the fractional rig issue, if you look at early 20th century cruising boats right up until the time of the post WW II CCA/RORC racing rule changes, they were pretty much either double headsail sloops, ketches or cutters with comparatively large staysails or else all fractionally rigged. It was only with changes in the racing rules that masthead rigs became the norm.

These days, the ease of handling, the smaller sail inventory, and the ability to quickly change gears with changing conditions has pushed much of the design world towards fractional rigs. If you look at companies as diverse as Catalina, Beneteau, Morris, Hylas, or Hallberg Rassey, their newest models are all fractionally rigged. While fractional rigs are bit more expensive to build, their advantages are being seen as a major draw for buyers.

Jeff


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post #15 of 19 Old 12-01-2009
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To weigh in on the fractional rig issue, if you look at early 20th century cruising boats right up until the time of the post WW II CCA/RORC racing rule changes, they were pretty much either double headsail sloops, ketches or cutters with comparatively large staysails or else all fractionally rigged. It was only with changes in the racing rules that masthead rigs became the norm.

These days, the ease of handling, the smaller sail inventory, and the ability to quickly change gears with changing conditions has pushed much of the design world towards fractional rigs. If you look at companies as diverse as Catalina, Beneteau, Morris, Hylas, or Hallberg Rassey, their newest models are all fractionally rigged. While fractional rigs are bit more expensive to build, their advantages are being seen as a major draw for buyers.

Jeff
Jeff,

An interesting anecdote to support that: About six or seven years ago, on a wet, cold mid-November morning, my father and brothers and I shared breakfast with Tom Morris at the old Galesville Market. With the weather what it was, we all lingered around their toasty kerosene heater as we sipped coffee and Tom regaled us with boatbuilding stories.

One of the points I remember most vividly was Tom mentioning how long it had been since Morris Yachts had delivered a sailboat with overlapping headsails.


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post #16 of 19 Old 12-01-2009
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After wrestling our I-52 x J-16 heasails (and spinnakers) on our old IOR based 40 footer, a fractional rig was on our 'must have' list for our most recent boat. While we ended up with a relatively severe frac (3/4 rig) and do suffer a bit in the light stuff because we are not carrying a genoa, we're still happy with that decision.

Having the comfort and room of a 35 footer with the headsails (esp spinnaker) of a 30 footer makes sailhandling much easier and we fly the spinnaker frequently with just the two of us. (I know, I know, Jeff - you fly yours by yourself! )

Ron

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post #17 of 19 Old 12-13-2009 Thread Starter
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On the weekend "Possibilities" was back in the bay. No one on board but we took this pic of her.

BTW......Possibilities circumnavigation took her below the three capes; Leeuwin , Horn and Agulhas (Good Hope).


Andrew B (Malö 39 Classic)

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― Terry Pratchett.

Last edited by tdw; 12-14-2009 at 02:27 AM.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-13-2009
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I am pretty certain that the boat pictured above is not owned by this chap: "It's like twitter. Except we charge people to use it."

"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

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post #19 of 19 Old 12-13-2009
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I was over BS'n with a buddy a few weeks back, and over the last couple years he has mentioned one of his long time buddies several times and how this long time buddy of his is in his 90 and still sails this cool little herreshoff that's one year younger then he is, He also told me how he and his wife fought with this long time buddy and finally convinced him to sit down and write a book, which he finally did.

Well, while we were BS'n this cool little Herreshoff with this ol' guy just kicked back having a good ol' time slids right into the slip and say hello, John introduces me to his long time buddy Jack and we continued just shoot'n the sh*t. Jack eventually had to leave cuz it was getting close to dinner and he had to sail to his side of the bay. ( about 1.5 hrs ) After Jack left, John dropped below and came back with the book he and Marylin had talked him into writting; The book is call " Messing around in boats for 80 yrs with Jack Sutphen "

All I could say was " well I'll be damned "

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