Evicted liveaboard blown ashore - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-09-2010
AdamLein's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
AdamLein will become famous soon enough
Evicted liveaboard blown ashore

It's been a stormy couple of weeks in the BC area as many recently active threads will attest. This morning saw northwesterly gales, and four boats anchored in unprotected waters were blown ashore.

CBC News - British Columbia - Vancouver sailor blames city for Kits Beach wreckage

For those unfamiliar with the area, English Bay is the main harbour in Vancouver and is exposed to westerlies and northwesterlies that are increasingly common at this time of year. At the east end of the bay is False Creek, a small, narrow, winding inlet that offers superb protection, but is regulated by the local authorities. There are limits to how much time you can spend at anchor; after that you have to find a slip (many are available in False Creek at a number of marinas) or go elsewhere.

On the one hand, I feel like evicting these boats when gales were forecast violates some ancient maritime tradition of providing safe harbour.

On the other hand, if you knew the forecast, it's pretty unseamanlike to anchor on a lee shore when more protected anchorages and secure slips are available.

So it sounds like nobody did the right thing last night.
__________________
s/v Essorant
1972 Catalina 27
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 04-09-2010
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,212
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
tommays will become famous soon enough
Well

nobody gets evicted here and we still end up with crap laying all over the place





And much of it does a great JOB as a bowling ball on the other boats
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 04-09-2010
AdamLein's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
AdamLein will become famous soon enough
Certainly, derelict boats have been a problem in the Vancouver area as well, but what can/should be about them is a question separate from whether they, or any boats, should be kicked out of safe harbor in a gale.
__________________
s/v Essorant
1972 Catalina 27
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 04-09-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 536
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Architeuthis is on a distinguished road
I agree with evictions if slips are available, maybe even if they are not.

The problem with these great anchorages is that they fill with boats when there is a storm (some times forcing out some of us who where there early and prepared). Most or too many boaters are comfortable with a few feet of chain, a little twine and a 2:1 scope, particularly around cities or popular small anchorages.

As a result Vancouver is just asking for trouble now that they are responsible for False Creek. It is a great place to ride out a storm but fill it with those kind of boaters (the kind that couldn't ride it out in English Bay) and eventually there will be claims. Better to deal with complaints, than claims.
__________________
Have faith that the oceans are going to rise and flood the world, that plague and pestilence brought on by Climate Change is going to punish us for not believing. Please do as they say it is our only hope. :P
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 04-09-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Unfortunately, more and more cities are taking it upon themselves to control the local waters and who can anchor in them and for how long. Many of the people responsible for enforcing these laws don't understand how dangerous a storm can be to a small boat anchored in an exposed anchorage and don't understand marine traditions such as safe harbor.

However, this isn't to say the boaters themselves are blameless. If they choose to neglect their boats, more laws will be passed to keep them away. If they choose to have undersized ground tackle or not learn how to use it properly, then it is almost a Darwinian result if they get hurt, injured or killed in a storm.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 04-09-2010
AdamLein's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
AdamLein will become famous soon enough
It's a tricky question, what to do about boaters who don't maintain their boats, anchor improperly, and violate anchoring etiquette by crowding already-anchored boats on short scope.

The ideal situation that I see is that cities enforce traditional anchoring rules instead of making up new rules. Thus anchorage is available on a first-come, first-serve basis to boats anchored in a secure fashion. Boats insecurely anchored, or encroaching dangerously on the swinging circle of a prior-anchored vessel, may be evicted.

I recognize that municipal regulation of waterways goes against federal law; I'm suggesting that if municipalities were cognizant of anchoring etiquette, it would be reasonable to modify federal law to allow cities to take action when public safety is an issue, which is basically what city authorities are there for anyway (in principle).

I'm not so sure what is the right course of action to take when a vessel is securely anchored with priority, and simply squats for an indefinite period.
__________________
s/v Essorant
1972 Catalina 27
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 04-09-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 536
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Architeuthis is on a distinguished road
I do not think cities should be enforcing traditional anchoring rules though it would be nice if there was some enforcement. Trouble is we need only look at the US and many areas in Canada to see what happens when we ask for enforcement. It becomes an industry that demands feeding.

We do recall that many people pleaded with False Creek boat owners to clean up their act. They didn’t and all of us lost the resource that is False Creek.


I see this problem of old boats being connected to those who scatter mooring balls in the best anchorages. Certainly a nice idea but one that has resulted in many anchorages being lost, even in the off season. More than once we have found ourselves anchored in or near a decrepit mooring field empty of boats but so crowded we would have to leave if the wind picked up.

It would be nice to see some of the old boats and mooring systems cleaned up, including removing the trash (old engines, anchors and blocks) from the seabed but who will accept responsibility? Clearly not those who installed mooring points on the cheap or those trying to boat on the cheap or the level of government currently responsible for these anchorages.

It seems to me that we should allow people to anchor, install mooring balls, or whatever but just like on land they should only do so for a short period of time. We do not allow people to camp indefinitely on crown or public land without a permit or lease so it could be on water. That way anybody could take the boat, maybe while it still had value, and clean up public areas without worrying about someone complaining about losing their valuble property (which it might be). Of course they would still complain but if the law was clear and simple they wouldn't have much of a case.

Trouble is I do not see that happening. Instead I think we will just end up with more False Creek solutions and fewer anchorages, fewer options in a storm.

Old style boating and rules do not adapt well to a planet with 7 billion people.
__________________
Have faith that the oceans are going to rise and flood the world, that plague and pestilence brought on by Climate Change is going to punish us for not believing. Please do as they say it is our only hope. :P

Last edited by Architeuthis; 04-09-2010 at 02:22 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 04-10-2010
Fstbttms's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 2,034
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Fstbttms is on a distinguished road
Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 04-10-2010
2Gringos's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SW Devil's Triangle
Posts: 858
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
2Gringos is on a distinguished road
Its sad to see boaters start down this "We need laws enforced" path.

Because you are too short sided to see the eventual outcome of it. And that outcome is that nobody 'needs' sailboats to exist at all. The property owners have the right to enjoy their water view without having to look at your boat anchored there in the way. With your ugly blue solar panels, and that stupid windmill scaring away the sea birds....I mean, a boat is a floating waste of petroleum products, and an eyesore. If I spent a few million on waterfront property, I think I should be able to control what happens to my view of the ocean.

I sure don't need a bunch of pseudo hippies living on a plastic boat out there pooping in the water and god knows what else.


This is where this is all going, eventually.

Let's make some more laws to enforce. then we can hire some more people to enforce them. And then once we have that increased enforcement infrastructure in place, well, we can then make even MORE laws.

Say...I don't think I like the color of that bottom paint....and I suspect a $500 fine for that slapping halyard noise might make you straigten up and follow the rules around here...
__________________
Two Americans move to the TCI.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 04-10-2010
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,603
Thanks: 67
Thanked 178 Times in 174 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
It IS a sticky problem without any single clearly fair/logical answer.

For a maritime city Vancouver is not particularly cruiser-friendly. There are few transient marinas, in fact no true transient marinas - the False Creek Harbour Authority (Fishermans' Docks) are the only marina really promoting transient moorage (they maintain some space for that) and all the other marinas are either short term (3 hrs - Granville Island) or simply filled up with moorage customers.

False creek is a decent, if somewhat confined/congested anchorage with much of it behind a low clearance bridge. Lots of traffic, shallow in spots, but for years it was chock-a-block with liveaboards and derelicts. That meant there was NO room for visiting boats. Vancouver's attempts to control the anchoring there was at least in part to provide a couple of weeks anchorage availability to visiting boaters, esp distance cruisers. No doubt all these non-tax paying waterfront liveaboards stuck in somebody's craw as well...

We were out on Monday, after Friday's storm and we noticed that cluster of boats anchored off Kits Beach and my first thought was concern about the next big Westerly. I wonder if those "boaters" even checked the forecasts. There's no way the authorities would have moved fast enough to evict them had they decided to move into the Creek in light of the forecast wind conditions. On the other hand it's quite possible some of these boats were not fully mobile anyway.

The cost of housing in Vancouver is pretty much out of sight, so it's no wonder people turn to cheap boats that provide a modicum of shelter, but clearly it's not an ideal solution. Its doubtful that many of those boats were insured - or that these people have the resources to recover the boats off the beach, leaving others (likely the Parks Board) with that task unless they are floatable on the tide.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sublet Available: Seattle - 50' Liveaboard Slip - Dec '09-Mar '10 ozcesq Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 0 12-02-2009 06:46 PM
Liveaboard Boat in Del Sol noboatjim Boat Review and Purchase Forum 0 02-25-2006 05:19 PM
Blown Away James Baldwin Seamanship Articles 0 09-13-2004 08:00 PM
Hinckleys blown ashore VIEXILE General Discussion (sailing related) 5 06-15-2002 07:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012