very close to going through with it... some last minute questions

[rmeador]

So, I heard from my bank today that I got a loan that will enable me to go through with my liveaboard plans on a Pearson 36 I've been looking at. I'll be living in Boston. I have a few questions that need answers before I can actually pull the trigger though...

1) How much does covering the boat in winter cost? I guess most people use shrinkwrap, but some make more elaborate canvas covers? Since I'll be living aboard, does that affect the cost, perhaps due to the addition of a door or somesuch? I'm assuming I'll keep the mast up all winter. Also, will this damage the boat? When I first saw it, it was under shrinkwrap and the shrinking seems to have bent a lifeline stanchion inwards. The current owner fixed that himself, he's apparently quite good at fiberglass work.

2) How much do anti-ice devices cost (to buy and to operate), and do you think I'll need them? I guess these are bubblers and others, I know nearly nothing about this.

3) Do you think I'll need a dinghy? I have a normal workweek job on land, so I think my sailing will be mainly daysails and weekend sails around the boston/cape cod area -- will I need it there? How much would a used dinghy and motor cost me?

4) Any thoughts on maintenance costs on this boat? I keep seeing scary figures like "10% of the boat's value per year in maintenance", which I just can't imagine being true... I can change the oil myself, the sails should only need fixing every few years, and random things that break shouldn't be that expensive, should they?

5) Tax benefits -- I've been repeatedly told that I can treat the boat as my primary residence and deduct the interest on the loan from my income. Can anyone point me to an official document that says as much, and ideally would let me figure out just how much of an effect this would have on my taxes?

6) If I decide I hate living aboard, do you think I'll be able to get out without losing too much money? At least 10% would seem to be sunk at the start in brokers fees to sell the boat...

7) Is being able to sail a couple times a week for 6 months out of the year worth living in such a small space and paying (only slightly) more than I'm currently paying to rent an apartment? In short, am I insane?

I apologize for posting so many questions in one post, but I have a feeling it would be even more frowned upon for me to start that many threads at once. Any info or insights you can supply would be greatly appreciated! No doubt I'll be up all night tonight thinking of more questions I should ask, so there will probably be more.

[kd3pc]

I can only help with 7)...just coming home to the boat is very relaxing to me...well worth it. The view changes, the motion is easy on the sleeping and no you are not insane. Even on those icy nights with a Corp laptop on each shoulder, worried that I would hit bottom before I gave up the Co gear...was not enough to enjoy the boat...and if the job goes away (like mine) you don't have a lease to tie you down...take the boat out for a few days/weeks, new job near or far you have the boat.

Best of luck....

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by rmeador

So, I heard from my bank today that I got a loan that will enable me to go through with my liveaboard plans on a Pearson 36 I've been looking at. I'll be living in Boston. I have a few questions that need answers before I can actually pull the trigger though...

1) How much does covering the boat in winter cost? I guess most people use shrinkwrap, but some make more elaborate canvas covers? Since I'll be living aboard, does that affect the cost, perhaps due to the addition of a door or somesuch? I'm assuming I'll keep the mast up all winter. Also, will this damage the boat? When I first saw it, it was under shrinkwrap and the shrinking seems to have bent a lifeline stanchion inwards. The current owner fixed that himself, he's apparently quite good at fiberglass work.

The problem with the bent stanchions is pretty common when the boat is shrinkwrapped badly. A canvas cover makes more sense, since it is a long-term investment, rather than disposable.

2) How much do anti-ice devices cost (to buy and to operate), and do you think I'll need them? I guess these are bubblers and others, I know nearly nothing about this.

The anti-icing devices are usually provided by the marina if you're a winter liveaboard. You'd only have to provide them if you were wintering in a privately owned slip.

3) Do you think I'll need a dinghy? I have a normal workweek job on land, so I think my sailing will be mainly daysails and weekend sails around the boston/cape cod area -- will I need it there? How much would a used dinghy and motor cost me?

To get to some of the better places to visit, you'd want a dinghy. The price really depends on what you're looking for in a dinghy and outboard. Craigslist is a pretty good source for them.

4) Any thoughts on maintenance costs on this boat? I keep seeing scary figures like "10% of the boat's value per year in maintenance", which I just can't imagine being true... I can change the oil myself, the sails should only need fixing every few years, and random things that break shouldn't be that expensive, should they?

It depends a lot on what the condition of the boat is, whether you do the work yourself or hire the yard to do it, and such. The big costs that might crop up are things like the standing rigging, engine and transmission, and the sails.

5) Tax benefits -- I've been repeatedly told that I can treat the boat as my primary residence and deduct the interest on the loan from my income. Can anyone point me to an official document that says as much, and ideally would let me figure out just how much of an effect this would have on my taxes?

Yes, but only if the loan uses the boat as the collateral for the loan. Typically, this type of loan is called a marine mortgage for obvious reasons. Also, the boat has to have a permanently installed head and galley—no camping stoves, no porta-potties. If the interest payments on the boat are $4000 and you're in the 28% tax bracket, you'd effectively save about .28 * $4000 or about $1120 per year. You'd want to talk to an accountant that is versed in tax law regarding this.

6) If I decide I hate living aboard, do you think I'll be able to get out without losing too much money? At least 10% would seem to be sunk at the start in brokers fees to sell the boat...

Again, this depends on the market, how much you pay for the boat, what shape the boat is in, time of year, etc. For instance, if you buy a boat that is overpriced for what you're buying, chances are very likely you'll take a serious hit selling it.

7) Is being able to sail a couple times a week for 6 months out of the year worth living in such a small space and paying (only slightly) more than I'm currently paying to rent an apartment? In short, am I insane?

Given what the real estate and apartment rental prices are in the Boston area, it is probably far less expensive to liveaboard than it would be to live in an apartment and have a boat in a slip. The increase in slip fees, for living aboard, is far less than the rent for an apartment or house in the Boston area.

I apologize for posting so many questions in one post, but I have a feeling it would be even more frowned upon for me to start that many threads at once. Any info or insights you can supply would be greatly appreciated! No doubt I'll be up all night tonight thinking of more questions I should ask, so there will probably be more.

The best place to liveaboard is probably the Constitution Marina in Charlestown, Mass. It has a fairly decent liveaboard community that has had notable sailors like Webb Chiles as members. It isn't very far from downtown Boston via water shuttle. It isn't far from public transportation either.

[rmeador]

Thanks for the info thus far. SD, you pretty much answered everything. I realize that some of the answers will be rather nebulous. Maybe someone with a Pearson 36 will come along and tell me of their maintenance costs and such. Also, I'm already thinking Constitution Marina is probably the place to be, but it's a little pricey in the summer... the nearby Shipyard Quarters is cheaper, but it might be worth the extra money to stay at Constitution. And you're certainly right that it would cost less than having an apartment plus a boat!

[arf145]

Regarding maintenance costs. Like SD said, it depends on the condition of the boat--and on how much you can do yourself. But don't completely dismiss the estimates you've heard. A Pearson 36 is what, 20 to 25 years old? Lots of parts are nearing the end of their service life at that point. Oil changes are pretty much the least of it.

[sailingdog]

IIRC, Shipyard is much farther from stores and decent public transportation. I'm going to guess that you probably won't have a car when you're in Boston, since parking one there is rather expensive. If that is the case, you'll want to be as close to public transportation as possible.

Also, the liveaboard community there will make life aboard a lot nicer.

[Minnewaska]

You asked a lot of good questions and got good answers. Since you opened the door for what really amounts to a matter of opinion on whether living aboard make one insane, I will offer my experience.

I live aboard, each and every weekend from Fri night to Mon morning. Its been a great experience and test of what our retirement plan might be to live aboard for six months out of each year. We hope to snow bird and use the boat to sail to and live aboard at one end, while maintaining a house at the other. Haven't which is in the north or south yet.

Here is my take on living aboard. Sailboats are completely incompatible with deadlines. In fact, the entire marine culture and infrastructure is incompatible with deadlines. Everything is harder and more likely to be interrupted by something mechanical or weather related to keep a firm schedule. When we don't have somewhere we have to be, we absolutely love it and deal with whatever comes. Monday mornings are notably different. Getting showered, fed and ready to go back to the office, putting on a suit and tie, having to leave even though you notice something you wish you could deal with now (eg. unexpected water in bildge, chafing on docklines), are all multiple times more difficult and frustrating than comparable issues at home.

I couldn't imagine going to work every day from the boat, but I can easily imagine being retired aboard. We love everything else about it.

[sailingdog]

Minnewaska—

I'd point out if you were actually living aboard full time, there would be far more chances for you to notice and remedy things like docklines chafing than you have weekending aboard as you do. Living aboard full-time and weekending aboard regularly can NOT be compared to each other. They're totally different things.

[eryka]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Minnewaska—

I'd point out if you were actually living aboard full time, there would be far more chances for you to notice and remedy things like docklines chafing than you have weekending aboard as you do. Living aboard full-time and weekending aboard regularly can NOT be compared to each other. They're totally different things.

Totally agree! I think of weekending; marina living aboard; and cruising as stages on a continuum. Weekending on the boat (then, presumably, going back to a house or apartment) - you don't have to address questions like where do you do your laundry? Which possessions are you going to keep? At the same time, living aboard at a marina and going to work is totally different than cruising. Living aboard at a marina is more like living in a very small condo. You are still in one place and have all the shoreside conveniences - a place to get your mail and park your car, nearly unlimited water and power compared to what you'd have while cruising and being totally reliant on boat systems.

That said, it's a fabulous life! Been living aboard fulltime for 8 years and would not voluntarily go back to land.

[eryka]

Originally Posted by rmeador

4) Any thoughts on maintenance costs on this boat? I keep seeing scary figures like "10% of the boat's value per year in maintenance", which I just can't imagine being true... I can change the oil myself, the sails should only need fixing every few years, and random things that break shouldn't be that expensive, should they?

Believe it! We've found that number to be pretty good - actually, we use 5-10% of the value of an equivalent new boat, and we're both quite handy and have done most of the work on our boat ourselves. Your list of questions implies you're relatively new at this, so any maintenance you need will be either done by a professional or you'll need to factor in trial-and-error processes. Every "random thing"on a boat that may break will be more expensive to fix than the same thing on land if for no other reason than the materials need to be resistant to corrosion - seawater is tough on metals, stainless costs more than the lightweight generic stuff from Home Depot. Also remember that in a house if you get a leak and don't fix it right away, the worst that can happen is that your furniture gets wet. If you live on a boat and get a leak and don't fix it right away, your home may sink - big difference!

Re your #7 - no you're not crazy, just inspired. Living aboard is great.