New head Set up

TheRealBill · #1 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010

Hi All!

My 33 CL Clipper had a 35 yr old Wilcox #51 with it dumping out the portside. No holding tank or pumpout receptacle on deck. I removed it yesterday and am preparing the area for a another set up.

Here's what I think I know. I definitely want a holding tank and pumpout set up. I want an electric flush set up like the Lavac popular with the electric set up or the the yacht size Jabasco electric head. The biggest issue I'm facing it holding tank size. I really only have a couple of options regarding "where" the tank would go and both would only allow for about a 10 gal tank. That in mind, the amount of water required per flush becomes relevant. I.E. If I have a 10 tank and every flush is say 1/2 gal of water then I have 20 flushes between pump outs. That seems a bit limiting to me.

I think at best I can make a 15 gal fit and that would tank some doing. Then I thought about 2 tanks...both 10 gal...with the pump out being from the lower of the two.

I do want to have the ability to Y it off for sea dumps when far enough out but that's just plumbing so I can figure that out. I guess the biggest help I need it finding a electric head under $500 that uses the least amount of water per flush.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Bill

thorrad · #2 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010

Are you on a dock or mooring outside? I have changed to an "Airhead" composting head two years ago January. It has changed our lives for the better and may help you.

The composters generally separate the "solids" from the "liquids" and treat both individually. There is no pumpout required and no holding tank, however you do have to get a bit more personally involved with your waste. It is always a compromise with boats...

I find that I have to change out the solids tank about once every three months. The liquids get taken up the dock to the onshore toilet once about every three days. The solids go into a compostable trash bag and into the landfill. All of this has saved me a TON of cash and has made my footprint a bit greener. (The compost that comes out of the solids is useful soil almost immediately.) The space saving from not having a holding tank is great and I could (although I haven't yet) glass over the through hulls supplying the old head it's water. I have them capped now in case a future owner wants the stinky old head back.

The other thing that changes with the composters is the smell. I HATED the smell of the old Jabsco I had aboard when I bought the boat. It never functioned properly and often would not flush all the way. I rebuilt it three times in two months before I finally got the new head. Even though I had planned to have the head replaced when I bought the boat I still had over 200 bucks worth of repairs to the old marine head before I could get the composting head in the boat. When the new head went in the smells that were associated with the old head just plain disappeared. These units are not stinky in the least (at least when compared to their holding tank cousins!) They are simple, having at most a few moving parts and are impossible to clog. There is little to no maintenance to the system save for the changing of the composting media that is part of the regular process. Even that is far less gross and difficult than even a small encounter with a "standard" marine head.

I have had little trouble with the new composting head and wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who is able to get to an onshore head at least once every couple of days. If not, you might stay with a marine head and a pumpout service for the time being.

thorrad · #3 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010

Oh BTW, I looked at the old head in the photos of your CL 33 on the page you set up from the original post. It looks like there is enough room to get a composting head in there. there might need to be a slight modification to the flooring but maybe not. There will be a new deck fitting you will need to vent the head so it can dry out the solids tank. I recommend using a solar powered fan unit for the through deck. Though it was easy for some of my neighbors to install their airheads I had mine put in at a yard. It cost me a bit but I know that the hardware is well supported and I have someone to yell at if there's a problem. Either way it is a system that has just about paid for itself in the months since we installed it jus in pumpouts alone. I save 45 bucks a month here in Seattle. I don't know if that's comparable to you down there in FL. The airhead ands the install alltogether cost about 1500 so I have about 10 more months to go before it pays for itself in pumpouts only. I assume that the repairs and time spent clearing out clogs in the lines will have paid for it already but I can't say for sure.

TheRealBill · #4 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorrad

Oh BTW, I looked at the old head in the photos of your CL 33 on the page you set up from the original post. It looks like there is enough room to get a composting head in there. there might need to be a slight modification to the flooring but maybe not. There will be a new deck fitting you will need to vent the head so it can dry out the solids tank. I recommend using a solar powered fan unit for the through deck. Though it was easy for some of my neighbors to install their airheads I had mine put in at a yard. It cost me a bit but I know that the hardware is well supported and I have someone to yell at if there's a problem. Either way it is a system that has just about paid for itself in the months since we installed it jus in pumpouts alone. I save 45 bucks a month here in Seattle. I don't know if that's comparable to you down there in FL. The airhead ands the install alltogether cost about 1500 so I have about 10 more months to go before it pays for itself in pumpouts only. I assume that the repairs and time spent clearing out clogs in the lines will have paid for it already but I can't say for sure.

Thanks for your input...I hadn't considered that option but am now. I like allot of things about the set up. I figure I was going to spend about $500 for a head, $2-3-400 on tank(s), thru hull fittings, hoses...not to mention install time. So I think price wise it's a good trade off.

As for handling my own $(&!...I think I may tend to regulate what goes in a little better is I have to come in contact with what comes out. And part of this whole L/A deal for me is to be more organic...so this my fit.

I'll have to read up on this more but very much appreciate your idea. Who know, I may start growing my own tomatoes

thorrad · #5 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010

As far as what goes in and what comes out there is little to worry about. Oddly the smell from the compost is nearly identical do musty old rope in a wet locker. There is little that is needed in terms of contact either. Once you get used to emptying the solids tank (the first time is a bit of a trial and error thing) you can usually do it in less than five minutes and totally cleanly.

While the compost is typically good to go into a garden pretty quickly, there is often a bit more time needed for it to break down fully to be safest (Around two months) As a liveaboard, I don't have time to wait for this so I just place it in a compostable bag and put it in the trash. By the time it's "cooked" all the way, the bag has broken down and it all is just good organic soil. Albeit, it's in the landfill. For our non-liveaboard boating friends, they can just leave the head in place with the top on over the winter and change it out once a year and use the soil right then.

They don't recommend using it for human consumed food plants, so the tomatoes are out. You could have some really great looking begonias though!

TheRealBill · #6 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010

I'm liking this composting set up...no holding tank is a plus...no thru hull fitting...no pump outs.

My CL has an old SS 6gal tank under the walkway just forward of the hatch. I have information that leads me to believe that it is a holding tank is for the ice-box drain water that is isolated from bilge water to preclude lingering foul odors. Originally, it had a hose from the ice-box drain leading to it and a line leaving it to a manual bilge pump. Both in and out lines are currently cut and not functional. I'm OK with routing the ice box hose to the bilge water as the only thing I see in that ice box is cold beer on ice. I have a frig for food.

So I'm wondering...if I went with one of these composting deals could I have the urine go to that tank? The tank has a removable cap so I could install a float to activate the bilge. The water line that is now in the head area (from the fresh water tank) would now go to a faucet/sink set up....that I would now have room for being I don't have to install a second tank. That set up would allow me to wash the bowl and clean the holding tank without worrying about filling up my small piss container. I could have the float set to its lowest setting so that little to no urine would remain in the tank.

Am over complicating matters?

thorrad · #7 (**permalink**) 08-03-2010

Well... If you are thinking about putting the liquids into the bilge or overboard I would say don't do it! The uscg and various depts of ecology say that's a big no-no. If you just want a small holding tank for the liquids, its a different matter. You may want to know that the standard liquid tank on the airhead is 2.5 gallons. Another 6 gallons may not make enough difference. The other thought to give to the old tank is pumping it out. Does it have a deck fitting? It would need one.

CaptainForce · #8 (**permalink**) 08-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorrad;627912.................

While the compost is typically good to go into a garden pretty quickly, there is often a bit more time needed for it to break down fully..............They don't recommend using it for human consumed food plants, so the tomatoes are out. You could have some really great looking begonias though!

You might want to google "casparian strip" and read the botanical function of this plant tissue. Tomatos can be fine, but maybe not carots. Take care and joy, Aythya crew

TheRealBill · #9 (**permalink**) 08-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorrad

Well... If you are thinking about putting the liquids into the bilge or overboard I would say don't do it! The uscg and various depts of ecology say that's a big no-no. If you just want a small holding tank for the liquids, its a different matter. You may want to know that the standard liquid tank on the airhead is 2.5 gallons. Another 6 gallons may not make enough difference. The other thought to give to the old tank is pumping it out. Does it have a deck fitting? It would need one.

Well...I was thinking the the urine would be sterile at that point and be able to just be discharged without issue...but

OK...I'll just keep it simple and use it as it comes. Now, I have seen the Air Head set up for $970 and Natures Head for $850...and extra urine bottle for each is about $40 Is the air head $120 better than natures head? Same? Are their less expensive types on composting?

Thanks,

Bill

remetau · #10 (**permalink**) 08-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealBill

Well...I was thinking the the urine would be sterile at that point and be able to just be discharged without issue...but

OK...I'll just keep it simple and use it as it comes. Now, I have seen the Air Head set up for $970 and Natures Head for $850...and extra urine bottle for each is about $40 Is the air head $120 better than natures head? Same? Are their less expensive types on composting?

Thanks,

Bill

Yeah, I could never quite figure out why a bucket with a hand crank churner and a toilet seat on it cost so much. I also don't understand how you are supposed to dump this compost when you just used it this morning and it still has solid waste in it. I guess you are supposed to get an extra bucket to store the waste for a couple more weeks as it continues to break down.