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Old 05-01-2011
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Question Graduating Shortly - Lurked and read everything here first

Hello and thank you very much for this great community! I've been lurking here and on another forum (where I am also asking this question) for the last few months and have read everything in the liveaboard area that appeared applicable to me. I've also read a few cruising books like "Sensible Cruising" that echo the opinions of many here.

I have a learned a lot (often gaining five new questions for each answer found) but I'm still having trouble putting together a final plan. But, having done my research, I feel more comfortable about asking for a little of your time in helping me decide.

Some info about me (I know this can be helpful in narrowing down options):
I'm 21, graduating from a New England University at the end of the month, and have been giving a great deal of thought as to what will be my next steps. I have a small but stable Internet-based company, and I want to take full advantage of the relocation flexibility this allows. I'm 6' 2", which seems to be no problem on most boats I've seen. I have been sailing many times but never for more than a few hours, nor have I spent the night on a sailboat. I have always lived in rooms under 10x10 so small spaces with limited storage/belongings in no shock for me. My goals for sailing are to eventually do a lot of coastal sailing to chase the ideal climate, visit family and simply making life more of an adventure.

My current plans are to take a sailing course (30 water hours) at URI as well as charter an overnight cruise so I can confirm this is something I am comfortable with. In parallel I'm trying to determine what would be the best plan assuming no unforeseen issues. I understand I'm leaping rather blindly but I'm fine with that. I know I would regret it if I didn't try (and frankly, nothing else seems as interesting - even if I eventually learn it isn't the life for me).

I know the below are loaded questions, so thanks for baring with me...

1. I'm currently looking at the 27-30 foot range, specifically the Catalina but have also heard votes for Hunter, Pearson, Alberg and Grampian. I've read of people living on 27s and loving them, and others swearing the 30 is worth every penny. I'm not convinced the extra ~1' beam justifies a 2x price (average of 10 cheapest Catalina 27s vs average of cheapest Catalina 30s on Yachtworld). My budget is flexible but I'm trying to get the right balance between spending less to own it sooner and not stacking the deck against myself. I would like to spend around $10k but can spend more if the trade-offs are worthwhile (the v-berth in the 30 is certainly far more attractive than the 27, but a line has to be drawn somewhere). If looking at the 30s, that budget will certainly have to be increased... I'd prefer to spend more on a smaller boat that is in better condition (again, I don't want to jeopardize my first experience by having to do massive rework on the boat from the start) then stretching my dollars for footage, if at all possible.

2. For a location I am thinking I would like to move south (perhaps the Chesapeake or Annapolis area) in order to make winters more tolerable and give myself more time to adjust and get a handle for everything. It would be easier for me to buy in the North as I can live with family until I find the right deal, but I could move south in a sublet or a good long-term rate at a hotel while I look around? While I really dislike humidity, I figure that until my sailing skills allow me to have better control of my environment, I'll be better off sweating to death than freezing to death. I'm really open to living wherever makes the most sense (given climates, boat availability, sailing attractiveness, liveaboard friendliness, etc.).

3. The one comfort I would like to have is a working shower. If I'm in the north this would really need to be indoors, but further south I imagine I can use one of the 1-2 gallon bug sprayers in the cockpit during most months. It doesn't have to be piping hot, or necessarily long, it would just, to me, make it seem more like a home and less like camping. I would really prefer to ween myself out of the marina (hook or mooring) as soon as possible (to reduce costs and encourage mobility), so relying on one for showers is a step in the wrong direction. I've heard of someone making a shower in a Catalina 27, and the cost savings of going with a 27 as opposed to a 30 could free up some funds to have some custom work done to make a shower possible? I'm still not sure if this is something I should just forget and use a marina shower or stick to my guns and make something work on-board.

I know my questions are very subjective, but I appreciate any help you can offer! Learning from others can save a lot of headaches and expense.
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Old 05-01-2011
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Bottom line, in my fellow-newb opinion...go for it. It will be the best adventure of your lifetime.

See below for what little feedback I can offer. There are some great salts on this forum that can answer every question you throw at them. I ain't one of them...but I've learned a lot from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maine89 View Post
Hello and thank you very much for this great community! I've been lurking here and on another forum (where I am also asking this question) for the last few months and have read everything in the liveaboard area that appeared applicable to me. I've also read a few cruising books like "Sensible Cruising" that echo the opinions of many here.

I have a learned a lot (often gaining five new questions for each answer found) but I'm still having trouble putting together a final plan. But, having done my research, I feel more comfortable about asking for a little of your time in helping me decide.

Some info about me (I know this can be helpful in narrowing down options):
I'm 21, graduating from a New England University at the end of the month, and have been giving a great deal of thought as to what will be my next steps. I have a small but stable Internet-based company, and I want to take full advantage of the relocation flexibility this allows. I'm 6' 2", which seems to be no problem on most boats I've seen. I have been sailing many times but never for more than a few hours, nor have I spent the night on a sailboat. I have always lived in rooms under 10x10 so small spaces with limited storage/belongings in no shock for me. My goals for sailing are to eventually do a lot of coastal sailing to chase the ideal climate, visit family and simply making life more of an adventure.

My current plans are to take a sailing course (30 water hours) at URI as well as charter an overnight cruise so I can confirm this is something I am comfortable with. In parallel I'm trying to determine what would be the best plan assuming no unforeseen issues. I understand I'm leaping rather blindly but I'm fine with that. I know I would regret it if I didn't try (and frankly, nothing else seems as interesting - even if I eventually learn it isn't the life for me).

I know the below are loaded questions, so thanks for baring with me...

1. I'm currently looking at the 27-30 foot range, specifically the Catalina but have also heard votes for Hunter, Pearson, Alberg and Grampian. I've read of people living on 27s and loving them, and others swearing the 30 is worth every penny. I'm not convinced the extra ~1' beam justifies a 2x price (average of 10 cheapest Catalina 27s vs average of cheapest Catalina 30s on Yachtworld). My budget is flexible but I'm trying to get the right balance between spending less to own it sooner and not stacking the deck against myself. I would like to spend around $10k but can spend more if the trade-offs are worthwhile (the v-berth in the 30 is certainly far more attractive than the 27, but a line has to be drawn somewhere). If looking at the 30s, that budget will certainly have to be increased... I'd prefer to spend more on a smaller boat that is in better condition (again, I don't want to jeopardize my first experience by having to do massive rework on the boat from the start) then stretching my dollars for footage, if at all possible.
Totally depends on your comfort level with the bare necessities. I own a C27. I could have lived on it at one point in my life. I wouldn't now. No interest. I like comfort, space, and margarita machines. But that's me.

As you mention below, if you're willing, then it's all about location.

Also, whatever you do, just make sure it's a boat you can sail. DON'T BUY SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO WORK ON FOREVER BEFORE YOU CAN SAIL HER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maine89 View Post
2. For a location I am thinking I would like to move south (perhaps the Chesapeake or Annapolis area) in order to make winters more tolerable and give myself more time to adjust and get a handle for everything. It would be easier for me to buy in the North as I can live with family until I find the right deal, but I could move south in a sublet or a good long-term rate at a hotel while I look around? While I really dislike humidity, I figure that until my sailing skills allow me to have better control of my environment, I'll be better off sweating to death than freezing to death. I'm really open to living wherever makes the most sense (given climates, boat availability, sailing attractiveness, liveaboard friendliness, etc.).
Dude...THINK! If you're going to move south, make it some place where bikinis are the norm. Otherwise, what's the freakin' point? SCREW WINTER! We're talking about sailing here. And if your business can run from Annapolis (when it's freakin' iced over), it can run from the Keys where chicks like being naked.

Location!

Quote:
Originally Posted by maine89 View Post
3. The one comfort I would like to have is a working shower. If I'm in the north this would really need to be indoors, but further south I imagine I can use one of the 1-2 gallon bug sprayers in the cockpit during most months. It doesn't have to be piping hot, or necessarily long, it would just, to me, make it seem more like a home and less like camping. I would really prefer to ween myself out of the marina (hook or mooring) as soon as possible (to reduce costs and encourage mobility), so relying on one for showers is a step in the wrong direction. I've heard of someone making a shower in a Catalina 27, and the cost savings of going with a 27 as opposed to a 30 could free up some funds to have some custom work done to make a shower possible? I'm still not sure if this is something I should just forget and use a marina shower or stick to my guns and make something work on-board.
The chicks I mentioned above? Solar showers in the cockpits. Think about it.

Since I live in a somewhat semi-tropical climate, no way would I put a shower on my C27. Mildew is out of control enough. On the other hand, if you're on you boat in January in Annapolis in a freakin' snowstorm, I could see the appeal.

See #2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maine89 View Post
I know my questions are very subjective, but I appreciate any help you can offer! Learning from others can save a lot of headaches and expense.
Sailing is about adventure. Go have one!
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 05-01-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2011
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smackdaddy, thanks for the response, I loved it!

I'm all for Florida. I can swim to keep cool and the weather would be a nice change for me. I love NE weather but I want to have something to compare it to.

What about Hurricanes though. I don't know what to expect or how capable I would be to get my "home" and self out of harm's way. (the answer is probably much simpler than I'm making it)
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Old 05-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maine89 View Post
smackdaddy, thanks for the response, I loved it!

I'm all for Florida. I can swim to keep cool and the weather would be a nice change for me. I love NE weather but I want to have something to compare it to.

What about Hurricanes though. I don't know what to expect or how capable I would be to get my "home" and self out of harm's way. (the answer is probably much simpler than I'm making it)
Don't ask me. That's what the salts are for!

I'm just giving you my very passionate-yet-uninformed opinion...from hearing the winter-fueled whinging and moaning of every Eastie on Sailnet for the past 3 years!
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Old 05-02-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maine89 View Post
smackdaddy, thanks for the response, I loved it!

I'm all for Florida. I can swim to keep cool and the weather would be a nice change for me. I love NE weather but I want to have something to compare it to.

What about Hurricanes though. I don't know what to expect or how capable I would be to get my "home" and self out of harm's way. (the answer is probably much simpler than I'm making it)
With hurricanes, you have days of warning before one hits. Of course yes, your house might get thrown against a sea wall and destroyed, but honestly, the chances of that happening aren't all that great. I grew up in GA and NC, and from 1976 to 2003 or so we only had four or five direct hits that did much damage that I can remember, and that is pretty localized, so if you figure doing this for a couple of years, your chances of having your boat destroyed in a marina are pretty slim.
Modern weather forecasting is a wonderful thing.
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Old 05-02-2011
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Quote:
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With hurricanes, you have days of warning before one hits. Of course yes, your house might get thrown against a sea wall and destroyed, but honestly, the chances of that happening aren't all that great. I grew up in GA and NC, and from 1976 to 2003 or so we only had four or five direct hits that did much damage that I can remember, and that is pretty localized, so if you figure doing this for a couple of years, your chances of having your boat destroyed in a marina are pretty slim.
Modern weather forecasting is a wonderful thing.
Certainly something for me to look into. I know a lot of people do it, but I figured most left during the hurricane season.

It would certainly solve my staying warm and shower issues...
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Old 05-03-2011
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Maine - congrats on the graduation and the beginning of the adventure! If I could suggest: don't get married so much to the 27 foot or 30 foot decision. Start with: the features that are most valuable to you (shower? bunk length? full/fin keel? whatever) and then search for the boat that has them - different manufacturers prioritize different features in the same size boat. And you're right on track with looking for a smaller boat in better condition for a first boat, than a larger one that needs lots of work.

Chesapeake is a wonderful place to learn to sail - lots of protected water, plenty of interesting anchorages, very forgiving bottom, not too much tide/current. And winter is just long enough to kill all the bugs For hurricanes, we had a thread with suggestions and tips for how to prep your boat to get safely through one; or many insurance companies will split the cost with you to haul your boat out of the water for a named storm within (x) miles of your location. Changing your latitude with the seasons is another great solution, fun & interesting. Lots to discover!
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Old 05-03-2011
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I second the thought of Annapolis not being very far south. It will extend the sailing season for at least one month on each side of winter, but look up the winter of '09-'10. They had several storms with over 2ft of snow.

Some will say to adventure young, then settle down. Others will say to work for a kitty, then head out and adventure. There is no right or wrong. You do what makes most sense to you. Best of luck.
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Old 05-03-2011
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Thanks wingNwing.

I have a small list of features I am looking for and I seem to be falling closer to a Watkins 27. More beam, shower, etc. I'll keep looking around and getting a better feel for it. The boat, just like the location, seem to all about compromise and trade-offs.

It would certainly be hot in FL (Tampa seems to be a good spot, if I were to choose FL, due to lower hurricane risk) but I spent a summer in Wuhan, China that wasn't the most pleasant of temperatures either (and it wasn't on the water...). I would also be arriving at whatever location around July-August which would not be the coolest of times.


Minnewaska - Yes I seem to be leaning in the direction of being further south. Hurricanes and the insurance expense seem to be my main concerns. I might be able to offset the insurance expense by living on a mooring - but that would cancel out any air conditioning (which in July-August I think would be missed). A probable option is to start in a marina and pay the extra money to get my feet wet.


I figure try things now while I'm the only one I have to convince!
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Not following the insurance/hurricane concern. If you head south during winter, you will miss hurricane season. Most policies are discounted if you keep your boat north of the Carolinas until Nov 1.
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