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  #241  
Old 04-01-2012
sunfish?junior?
 
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Hey men Please keep the debate going !!! Some of it is over my head but You all keep at it ! BE nice others are looking at you. We might learn a thing or two. Lets get some more data How many full keel boats built are on the bottom and how many fin keels have been laid to waste. Try to find some way of apples to apples hard to match a 1928 wood full keel up to a 2002 fiberglass fin keel. Want to add just read Cats may not be allowed off shore in anything less than calm weather In the USA unless crew and boat meets standards to be set. Check out that news. It is off subject of fin and full Put it in because cats came up in thread. Once more keep it up. This is a good thread!
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  #242  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou452 View Post
As I will try to look for a boat that will fit my needs first I need to figure out what that need is right now the 13 ft flying junior fits me. I was going to buy from a 16 to 26 foot looking at what could be pulled down the road. already looking at dreaming of the next boat. Do others do this? This kind of leads away from a fin I am in KY no huge waves here. I grew up on Lake Eire feel just fine on that water any summer wind or wave in my sunfish. Still this is not blue water. I plan to move but for now I am here. Next boat for here sailing in the lakes should be? I Like to scuba dive play on the beach . I would like to get on and in the water easy from the boat. From what I am learning about fin vs full a full keel shoal draft might fit my needs better? The next boat should be? Also I could get a slip an go up to say 36 foot but this would be a boat that would have to make the move with me and the move is 8 years min time frame away
Hello Lou, here is some of my experience on lakes. Centerboards are great, you can find the hidden shallow spots with the board down, just pull it up to get off, or it will just bounce off. Here in Maine the lakes were all raised for logging by dams. In fresh water wood doesn't rot, so there are stumps over 100 years old still down there with the sunken logs. I hit a big stump pretty far from shore with my center boarder, taught me I should never sit on the trunk, because the board kicked up the handle, which would have been between my legs I avoid that area, I took rough sightings.

Now I know the bad spots on "my" lake, and am using a Victoria 18 there. I don't want to go much bigger, the lake is only 7 miles, and very narrow. The V18 has a fixed long lead filled shoal keel. My wife loves it, much more stable. However, be aware that you must anchor and swim to shore, or we sometimes use an inflatable and paddle in. This is not a problem for us, we never beached anyway because wave action works the boat against the shore. We always carry an anchor, and a light anchor to keep the stern from swinging. Here in Maine sand beaches on lakes are rare, there is much granite everywhere so again, we never think of beaching. To get in and out of the water a folding swim platform can be good, and a cheap ladder with hooks that you put on and off is OK, and below when not using it.

I'm sure a fin keel would be fast and fun, you might need to stay in deeper water. Harder to trailer and harder to launch without a deep steep ramp. Look for a depth map, fisherman at least make them. Mark off the areas that are too shallow for whatever fixed keel you look at, and decide if you are happy to give up going to those areas.

There are also swing keels (heavy swinging keel) which could be good, and shallow keels with small centerboards inside, maybe the best of both worlds? An example for sale here is a 23ft Seafarer Kestrel, very trailerable. SEAFARER 23 KESTREL (DAYSAILOR) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

I purchased last fall and have not yet sailed a Seafarer 24, which has a weighted lead bottom with a slightly heavy swing keel/centerboard. Because the main part of the lead is up high, it can't be as good as a deeper keel, it is not an off shore boat, but probably great in the lakes around here.

To summarize, decide how much of the lake you are willing to give up (depthwise) to determine your acceptable fixed keel depth. Check your ramps by measuring how far out you need to go to launch. You can use an extension, but check for the "standard" deep hole right at the ramp end where prop wash digs out the bottom when powerboats power onto their trailer. Don't run your trailer wheels into that hole if too deep.

We like trailering for lakes, because we can go to new areas for variety and interest. And work on the boat at home, and no fees.

Edit: I almost forgot. Make sure that whatever boat you get to trailer has a hinged mast tabernacle on the cabin top, with support under it. Do not get a keel stepped mast, very much harder to step and unstep.
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Last edited by skygazer; 04-01-2012 at 11:04 AM. Reason: more info
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  #243  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by Lou452 View Post
... Want to add just read Cats may not be allowed off shore in anything less than calm weather In the USA unless crew and boat meets standards to be set. Check out that news. It is off subject of fin and full Put it in because cats came up in thread. Once more keep it up. This is a good thread!
That's odd. Are you sure? Do you mean that all cats will be "grounded" inshore till they prove to meet standards that had not even been set?

That is crazy. It is hard to believe!!! Any link to that?

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-01-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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  #244  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Skygazer

The Seafarer 24 CB, as with most boats built with the option of a centerboard or a deeper keel, has more ballast to compensate for the higher location.
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  #245  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Cate not allowed offshore? That is crazy. There are probably a great many more unseaworthy monohulls than cats.

Do you have a link?
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  #246  
Old 04-01-2012
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Smile Re: Full or fin keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That's odd. Are you sure? Do you mean that all cats will be "grounded" inshore till they prove to meet standards that had not even been set?

That is crazy. It is hard to believe!!! Any link to that?

Regards

Paulo
Paulo : at this other sailing web site( cruisers and sailing ) you will find some info. I did not spend a lot of time on this because I think it is nuts. Some folks say anything and put it on the web. Maybe I should not have even repeated it because the more times rumors are told they gain stature. They were very serious with the fourm. I try to spend time in fourms that debate with class and put out a good set of facts Plus a cat boat is not me I love my little sunfish even in Lake Erie with White caps and surf. I am close to the water if I lose it and I can get back up. I can not say for sure becase I have not done it but even a small cat looks like a man could go for a good flight and the boom might hurt bones when you land. Then you have to get it back up. I used to jump the ramp on water skis and trick ski. Water can get kind of hard when you hit it that I can say for sure. Full or Fin looks like a knock down would be less violent than in a cat ? I have little sailing knowledge but this thread and other members that are helping me plus books I am reading are starting to make sense. The best thing is geting to spend time on the water to see how I fit with doing it. I can tell you all kinds of ways to move a soccer ball but you must find somthing that works for your limits to the game. I need to find and live in my sailing limits. Most all of the boats are better than me so I need to learn enough to make good choices LOU452
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  #247  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou452 View Post
...Water can get kind of hard when you hit it that I can say for sure. Full or Fin looks like a knock down would be less violent than in a cat ? I have little sailing knowledge but this thread and other members that are helping me plus books I am reading are starting to make sense. The best thing is geting to spend time on the water to see how I fit with doing it. I can tell you all kinds of ways to move a soccer ball but you must find somthing that works for your limits to the game. I need to find and live in my sailing limits. Most all of the boats are better than me so I need to learn enough to make good choices LOU452
That's about it I know of guys that have crossed the Atlantic on Beach cats, or sailed the Horn...and they were not crazy but great sailors and were doing something that carried a limited risk. If I tried that it would be madness. I donít have the knowledge neither the skills to do that on a beach cat. However a cruising cat is not properly a beach cat. Here you have a Lagoon 440 sailing with winds in excess of 40K:



The guy is very good or a bit crazy because he carries too much sail for a relaxed sailing. With a bit less sail he would not be doing 18K but would go at 14K in a much safer way.

Regards

Paulo
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  #248  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou452 View Post
Paulo : at this other sailing web site( cruisers and sailing ) you will find some info. I did not spend a lot of time on this because I think it is nuts. Some folks say anything and put it on the web. Maybe I should not have even repeated it because the more times rumors are told they gain stature. They were very serious with the fourm. .
I saw what you mean...it is a 1st of April lye. Very funny

Regards

Paulo
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  #249  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

My full keel boat was commissioned to be a single handed ocean cruiser, fast sea worthy and easy to handle on all points of sail, granted there isn't enough room to swing a cat, but I don't have cats on board and I choose grace over space. A friend of mine in talking about his Catalina 30 (a fin keel boat) commented that even though it took a lot more work to sail at sea and wasn't as "sea kindly" his wife likes the extra room. If you are wondering which boat will be easier to handle at sea a full keel wins hands down...that said some will not get out of their own way in a calm and not all point well...but this also applies to to some fin keel boats. Some of the best ocean cruiser designs are "old school" designs which some consider to be obsolete because they do not emulate modern day racers as closely. I would take my boat to sea ahead of 95% of the boats in the harbor...she is safe, easy to handle, comfortable and tracks well on all points of sail...tending the helm is relaxing (some of the fin keels out there require 100% of your attention at all times) and the tiller can be lashed rather than using high tech gadgets and gizmos.
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Last edited by wolfenzee; 04-01-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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  #250  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

What kind of boat Wolfenzee?...i just was lucky enuff to obtain a Columbia 40 for the right price...she needs lots of deck re-hab...but otherwise seemed a good bet as her rigging, spars and engine and sails are good from what I can tell...I know there will be a few surprises.... but she has a partial full keel and C/B.

Keel has 8,400 lbs lead...and C/B can drop her draft to 9 feet...4.5 feet when board is up. Charlie Morgan design..(1964) for Columbia and only 10.5 beam..plenty of room but sea-kindly lines...What I am getting at is hearing you talk about your old girl makes me itch to see how this boat handles...(wheel-steering) but also "emergency tiller" access plate at rudderpost head...
I can't wait to see how she tracks...after reading your post above...standing on her deck mid-river with gusts to 20 mph she seemed to almost not move..back to the tracking..,interested to see if I can "lash off" the helm easily like you spoke of... instead of flirting with the autopilot(if it works) or self-steering(doesn't have..maybe doesnt need?)
Anyways..I am in love and lust..can't wait to get her near me..she's lying 80 miles away...awaiting P/O to send fuel injectors he already purchased...(already has new injector pump he installed)...and it's a 1988 engine Universal diesel 24 hp(kubota) ..a little underpowered for a 19,000 lb boat but... it seems is just a marinized version of kubota tractor engine that should be easy to get stock parts for from local kubota tractor dealerexcept for some certain ones...

Last edited by souljour2000; 04-01-2012 at 10:27 PM.
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