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  #281  
Old 04-05-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Okay, got it!

The actual speed numbers would be interesting. BUT, probably also like my comparison to some smaller and about the same disp earlier, it may not be as drastic, but still better due to typically a lot more SA/disp ratio on typical fin keels vs full keels.

Marty
well maybe this is part of answer- this says cruising 6.5 knots:
1998 Roberts 45 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

My boat does about that with its worn out sail, cruising gear and a non-race skipper to boot. Think I'll stick with my 34, lot cheaper too.
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  #282  
Old 04-05-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Thats a whopping 1 knot faster than my 28' on deck boat usually does. I can motor at 6 using a smallish amount of fuel, hull speed is 6.6 knots. I've had it up to 11 surfing down a wave in some upper 30 to low 40 knot winds with a main and 110 up. That was a hoot. Downwind it is not uncommon in low to mid 20 knot winds to be in the 7-9 knot range.

A local with a Jeanneau SO49iP has had his doing 15-20 with his then 105lb 14 yr old daughter at the helm using an AS up with 20' seas heading to Oz. it was simple driving from what I under stand.

Not sure frankly one really needs a full keel per say, as making sure that ones boat is strong enough scantly wise to handle what one will put it thru. Where as right not, IMHO the VOR 70 bunch, have probably pushed the lightly built scantlings if you will for the rig/hulls etc a bit much, hence why so many have broken things. Where as if you take the same design, build it a bit heavier and stronger, it will not go as fast, but would take some of the beating at a slightly less speed better. now whether or not a couple cruising would want to be going 20+ knots in ALL conditions.......that leaves something to be disCUSSed, as most would probably be happy if they could easily sail in the mid to upper teen range with a 70 boat by them selves. Heck, I'd be happy with a 40-50' boat doing that here and there!

marty
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  #283  
Old 04-06-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Why did you trade to a smaller boat? How do the cruising speeds compare under sail?
Regards
Hi Casey,

I'm doing alot more singlehanding nowdays as the family have grown up and defintely not into sailing. I'm possibly doing a Bali / Indonesia trip in the future, so I needed a yacht that has very good windward performance as you are looking at over 1,000NM of mostly upwind sailing for the return leg. Plus Amadeus has already done the trip, a previous owner competed in a Fremantle to Lombok race about 10 years ago.

Cruising speeds for the two yachts are fairly similar; upwind the Roberts averaged 4.5kts in 12-20kt winds whilst the UFO 34 averages 5kts in 8-13 knot winds. Reaching both yachts averaged around 6kts in roughly 20 kt breezes. These figures are all in the ocean / open waters with a fair bit of wave action.

However the big difference is in pointing and winds below 10 knots. The UFO 34 points an average 10 degrees closer to the wind, which makes an enormous difference to actual miles achieved. With the Roberts with winds below 10 knots the boatspeed would drop below 4 knots and you would have to motor. However with the UFO 34 below 10 knots of windspeed the yacht will maintain at least half of this as boat speed, ie you would still be doing 5 knots going upwind. Reaching or broadreaching you can do even better.

Note that none of the sails of either boats would be called "racing" condition and I'm not really into trying to squeeze the last knot of boatspeed (ie I can't remember the last time I adjusted the backstay). I'm sure others could obtain better numbers with a better suite of sails and more diligent boat handling.

Ilenart
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  #284  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I was looking for the cruising speeds in Knots for each vessel.... Seeing one should have a higher hull speed the comparisons would be interesting...

In any case, glad to hear Ilenart likes his ufo 34 as my boat is nearly identical....
Yep, S&S34's are very similar to UFO 34's. There is a S&S34 sitting next to my yacht and apart from the windows its hard to tell them apart sometimes. You can see the SS34 in my photo, yacht with the blue hull.

Roberts 45 hull speed is 7.6 knots whilst the UFO 34 is 7.1 knots. However the UFO gets a lot closer to the theoretical boatspeed than the Roberts 45. I remember Jeff_H saying something very similar in a few of his posts.

Ilenart
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  #285  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by Ilenart View Post
Yep, S&S34's are very similar to UFO 34's. There is a S&S34 sitting next to my yacht and apart from the windows its hard to tell them apart sometimes. You can see the SS34 in my photo, yacht with the blue hull.

Roberts 45 hull speed is 7.6 knots whilst the UFO 34 is 7.1 knots. However the UFO gets a lot closer to the theoretical boatspeed than the Roberts 45. I remember Jeff_H saying something very similar in a few of his posts.

Ilenart
There is a little wood plaque still in the cabin of my boat. Says "1980 Fremantle to Bali" My boat was born and spent early years in Fremantle.
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  #286  
Old 04-07-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
well maybe this is part of answer- this says cruising 6.5 knots:
1998 Roberts 45 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

My boat does about that with its worn out sail, cruising gear and a non-race skipper to boot. Think I'll stick with my 34, lot cheaper too.
My 30' full keel ocean cruiser also cruises at 6.5 knots ("hull speed" 6.75 knots, 7 knots under power)with its worn out sail, cruising gear and a non-race skipper to boot.

Last edited by wolfenzee; 04-07-2012 at 02:43 AM.
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  #287  
Old 04-07-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Well men if you wish to know what a newbee is getting from this thread is that Full or Fin is a matter of choice. The Full might seem to be a little more steady or need less trim under way for a longer time period. It has less draft. The Fin may go better in very light wind and turn just a little faster. Both are as safe and capable as the crew on board. 30 pages or so and this is what I take so far. I do not know what happend to the newbee that started this thread but I am still here sail on ! Thanks for the insight! regards LOU
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  #288  
Old 04-07-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by Lou452 View Post
Well men if you wish to know what a newbee is getting from this thread is that Full or Fin is a matter of choice. The Full might seem to be a little more steady or need less trim under way for a longer time period. It has less draft. The Fin may go better in very light wind and turn just a little faster. Both are as safe and capable as the crew on board. 30 pages or so and this is what I take so far. I do not know what happend to the newbee that started this thread but I am still here sail on ! Thanks for the insight! regards LOU
If you join to that between a well designed fin keel and a well deign full keel, the fin keel will point better, it will go much faster downwind (it can go over hull sped quite easily), it will be considerably less expensive (new, of course) and that the full keel will be less prone to suffer damage in a hard grounding, you have got it

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-07-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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  #289  
Old 04-07-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by Lou452 View Post
I do not know what happend to the newbee that started this thread but I am still here sail on ! Thanks for the insight! regards LOU
I'm still here! Just keepin my head down and learning.
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  #290  
Old 04-07-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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Originally Posted by utchuckd View Post
I'm still here! Just keepin my head down and learning.
Kewl he is still here......now where is my toy nuec?.....ahhhhhhhhhh........

INCOMING!
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