Full or fin keel? - Page 30 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree241Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #291  
Old 04-08-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kyushu, Japan
Posts: 73
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Daily Alice is on a distinguished road
Re: Full or fin keel?

I am a bit shy to make my first post, though reading this and many other threads for some time, I would like your consideration. Now I am planning a voyage from Hawaii to Japan (my home), and I will purchase a boat in Hon. or NA West Coast, of 34' or under, due to budget.

My question concerns heavy weather. It has been mentioned that fin keels do not heave to. Comments? Also mentioned was that this could be ameliorated with a drogue (like Jordan series)? For the solo or short-handed skipper, in a smaller boat, would the ability of the boat to heave to be a) crucial, b) important, or c) solved by other means?

Of course I would love some recommendations of a used boat suitable to the task for < $25K prior to outfitting. There are not so many choices, right? But would you advise me to ignore any/all fin keels in whatever combination? There is a real appeal in making a speedy passage -- in fact I am wanting to deliver the boat (to myself) in Japan, where it will enjoy its future life, with coastal and offshore work. I am not a circumnavigator, or live-aboard person.

As for sailing experience, offshore experience is limited. I crew on a 37' Jeanneau Sun Odyssey sailing in the Japan Sea, in Southern Kyushu. I do like the idea of weathering battened down in my cabin, reading a book, if it comes to that (or just hanging on).

Last, just to mention, some sort of fin+skeg rudder combination appeals to me (particularly for later coastal use), but I would not want to be foolish. Would you? If you can't heave to with a smaller fin keeled boat, can it be recommended for my (or trans-Pacific offshore) use?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #292  
Old 04-08-2012
Ilenart's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Australia
Posts: 508
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 8
Ilenart is on a distinguished road
Re: Full or fin keel?

Hi DA, welcome to Sailnet. As your post is fairly general in future you may wish to start your own thread.

On heaving to, fin keels can be more difficult to setup compared to long keel yachts, however it really depends on the vessel. Some people suggest using a sea anchor to assist yachts that do not heave too easily. The Book "Storm Tactics" by Lin & Larry Pardey gives a good description of the options and process. I would suggest this issue is somewhere beween "important" / to "solve by other means", ie a Jorden series drogue is an alternative.

However based on your post, I would suggest that obtaining further experience is probably more desirable, ie crew on someone else's yacht first. This is a lot cheaper and there are always yachts looking for crew. I'm about to fly to the South Pacific to spend six weeks crewing on a yacht. During these trips you can work out for yourself what sort of yacht appeals to you.

Good luck, Ilenart
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #293  
Old 04-08-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kyushu, Japan
Posts: 73
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Daily Alice is on a distinguished road
Re: Full or fin keel?

Thank you Ilenart, for the welcome. I am a bit mystified by your seeming "shrug"? My post is quite on the topic under purview, which has to do with the merits of fin vs. full keels, or am I mistaken. That you have responded in part "somewhere between "important"..." would seem to confirm this. Obviously I do not have your experience. I asked a pertinent question because I am seeking expertise. By the way I am also a reader. I have read in the last month various books concerning the 1979 Fastnet tragedy, and have Coles' "Heavy Weather Sailing" by the crook of my arm. I presented a real-world situation, which I am facing. I doubt I will be able to acquire further experience than I am already involved in. But do please move on, everyone, if my newbie post is passť.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #294  
Old 04-08-2012
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,685
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
Re: Full or fin keel?

Alice,

Depending upon cost, the SO37 that you are currently sailing on HAS crossed many an ocean. In fact one year it had more of these models doing the ARC than any other model. Granted the atlantic can at times be less of an issue than the pacific.....but that is another issue all together.

There is usually 3-6+ for sale on the west coast of the NA from Scal up into the BC area at any one times. Other models that might work from Jeanneau are the SO 34.2, 36.2, 37.x and larger models that are with int he last 15 yrs or so. The sunshine 36/38 has also crossed many an ocean too.

Reality is, many of the more recent boats can and do cross oceans. A fellow on here took an Ericson from the LA or SF area to Australia. I know of a person with a J37c that went from Seattle where I am down to Mexico a couple of yr ago, still down that way.

At the end of the day, get as much sailing experience on the so37 you are sailing in as many wind conditions as you can, including the day you really do not want to go out, ie too windy in you mind, as you may get caught out in the ocean in worst conditions.

Good luck on choice
Marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #295  
Old 04-08-2012
sunfish?junior?
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Richmond ky
Posts: 748
Thanks: 47
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Lou452 is on a distinguished road
Re: Full or fin keel?

Utchucktd GOOD THREAD best so far !
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #296  
Old 04-08-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kyushu, Japan
Posts: 73
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Daily Alice is on a distinguished road
Re: Full or fin keel?

Does everyone agree with Lou452 (post 287) : “Well men if you wish to know what a newbee is getting from this thread is that Full or Fin is a matter of choice. The Full might seem to be a little more steady or need less trim under way for a longer time period. It has less draft. The Fin may go better in very light wind and turn just a little faster. Both are as safe and capable as the crew on board.”

“Both are as safe and capable …” Agreed or not? I am wondering the same thing as the OP, regarding fin vs. full keel. I am concerned in particular with potential heavy weather trans-oceanic (Pacific) sailing, regarding keels.

It was suggested earlier that boats of equal displacement should be compared, rather than boats of equal length; it was also suggested that “the biggest difference between fin and full keel boats is that fin keel boats are much lighter, that is the point...to compare boats of the same size and different weights is a more accurate comparison… a typical weight fin of the same size as a typical weight full is about half.” (post 254)

Pragmatically, I would compare by cost (which would include adapting/outfitting an older boat for the stated purpose). What type of boat should I spend my money on, commit to, for my intended purpose (Marty, I’m not focused on a Jeaneau - thanks for your information though). At a given price range there are various keel options available. My length limit of roughly 34’ feet relates to cost/performance, among other factors, including potential physical requirements. I don’t suppose there is a clear answer, but I do wonder about heavy weather sailing in “smaller” boats (representing the largest number of solo/hhort-handed circumnavigators, it seems).

Last edited by Daily Alice; 04-08-2012 at 07:29 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #297  
Old 04-08-2012
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,071
Thanks: 0
Thanked 68 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Re: Full or fin keel?

Assuming good build quality and equipment I agree that "Both are as safe and capable as the crew on board."

In light airs the fin should be able to sail well with light sails - the heavy full keel boat not so much. The heavier the boat the larger the sails and the heavier the gear on deck as well, as the loads are higher.

There are a great many fin keel boats out there crossing oceans- probably a lot more than full keel boats - at this time. I am not advocating an extreme fin - but a moderate one.

My comment about comparing equal weight boats makes sense if you are building new mostly as boats price by the pound more or less. I would much sooner have a 40' fin keel boat than a 30' full keel boat that weighs the same.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #298  
Old 04-08-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,163
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Full or fin keel?

As it was said by Marty and Ilenart is not so much about the boat but about your skills. As It was said by everybody first you should get a lot of experience before doing a voyage like that. While you get that experience you will sail different kinds of boats, their cost and can have an idea of what kind of boat you prefer or can afford.

I also donít understand why you talk about a 34ft related to budget. First you have to have a budget and then find the boat that fits your budget.

As others have said you should open a thread about your specific problem, related with your budget, best places to learn sailing and so on.

As it was said repeatedly on this thread, seaworthiness has not to do with a boat having a fin or full keel, however if your budget is really small you can be restricted to buying a really old boat and the chances are that one would be a full keel.

Open a thread about that, lots of guys have experience about old inexpensive boats that with some work and money can be made seaworthy again.

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #299  
Old 04-08-2012
wolfenzee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: S/V Waltzing Matilda, Port Ludlow, WA (NW Puget Sound)
Posts: 497
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
wolfenzee is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to wolfenzee
Re: Full or fin keel?

The main purpose of the fin keeled cruising boat, sometimes called a "racer/cruiser" is to emulate the high performance of the racing boats. As with everything in boats there a comprimises...as you approach the performance of a racer, more work is nessesary to handle the boat and the more uncomfortable the boat becomes in nasty weather. The "classic bluewater boat" is a heavy displacement full keel, they are easy to handle, comfortable in nasty weather, though are not super high performance. As with the fin as you approach the extremes of the design both the advantages as well as the disadvantages increase. In the case of my boat it is not a big fat ocean cruiser that can't get out of it's own way in a calm, she is fast in all winds and easy motion in nasty....but likes to heel alot and has a narrow beam with a tight cabin...I am happy with her.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #300  
Old 04-08-2012
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,071
Thanks: 0
Thanked 68 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Re: Full or fin keel?

wolfenzee

I am glad you have found a boat that you are happy with.

I think your boat is a classic ocean cruiser of 75 years ago, narrow, and not spacious.

I think boats like the one shown below are considered by many to be a more fitting "classic" ocean cruiser that has the comfort attributes of the past, more room, more speed, and easy handling. Not extreme in design and not mired in the past.
Attached Thumbnails
Full or fin keel?-1.jpg   Full or fin keel?-valiant_40_photo.jpg  
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply

Tags
boat buying , newbee advice


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full Keel Vs. Fin or Modified Full Keel AjariBonten Sailboat Design and Construction 51 11-16-2013 02:52 AM
Full Keel vs. Wing Keel small boats Kyhillbilly General Discussion (sailing related) 4 07-26-2011 11:51 AM
4 ft draft, full keel, 30' and over? birdlives Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 09-17-2010 11:00 PM
Older Full Keel boats JerryO39 General Discussion (sailing related) 30 06-09-2010 09:06 AM
Bristol 32'' full keel johnblsc Boat Review and Purchase Forum 2 12-13-2002 05:37 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.