Full or fin keel? - Page 56 - SailNet Community
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post #551 of 847 Old 12-22-2012
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Re: German Yacht Magazine Article on Full vs. Fin Keel

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Originally Posted by bjung View Post
I am not sure we can make the deductions they made purely on keel shape, because these boats are very different in other regards, beam, hullshape, displacement, ballast ratio, etc..
The title is full vs. fin keel and may be misleading, but the article has lots of information and detailed explanation on the hull shape as well.
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post #552 of 847 Old 12-22-2012
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Re: German Yacht Magazine Article on Full vs. Fin Keel

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a heavy boat with a lot of rocker would be at his best and a modern boat at is worst.
Don't know what do you mean by heavy, the Vindö is 5 tons, that's true, but the HR 29 is 4, the Sun Odyssey 3.9. That 100kg makes all the difference?
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post #553 of 847 Old 12-24-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Love my twin keels and I wouldn't want anything else, nor would most of my recent clients.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #554 of 847 Old 12-24-2012
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Re: German Yacht Magazine Article on Full vs. Fin Keel

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Don't know what do you mean by heavy, the Vindö is 5 tons, that's true, but the HR 29 is 4, the Sun Odyssey 3.9. That 100kg makes all the difference?
No, I guess not but then the HR 29 is a fin keel boat not a full keel boat.

In what regards the HR 29 the hull is just more adapted to sail upwind with waves and that has to do not only with a lot more rocker, a more narrow hull but mainly with a much bigger D/B ratio. The HR29 is a well designed boat, a stiff one. I don't like the SO 30 that is a boat with an unusual low B/D. That makes it tender upwind with waves and that's the main reason for its bad performance.

If you had against those boats, on those conditions, a modern stiff boat, the boat would be less comfortable but would be faster.

Have a good Christmas

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Paulo
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post #555 of 847 Old 12-24-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Once the wind speed gets to the point where comfort would be an issue my boat is doing hull speed (9kts I am doing hull speed,6.5kt, under main and working jib). So unless you are talking about racing fin keels that can plane, a fin keel would not be any faster. 30' at 8ton it is smooth in nasty seas
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post #556 of 847 Old 12-25-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

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.So unless you are talking about racing fin keels that can plane, a fin keel would not be any faster. 30' at 8ton it is smooth in nasty seas
there are no racing fin keels. Fact is that most modern performance cruisers and even some mainstream cruising mass production boats use similar keels to the ones that are used in racers just with a smaller draft.

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post #557 of 847 Old 12-27-2012
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Re: German Yacht Magazine Article on Full vs. Fin Keel

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The comparison was made on the conditions a heavy boat with a lot of rocker would be at his best and a modern boat at is worst. They also chose for the comparison a particularly tender boat. If they had chosen the slightly bigger jeanneau 33i (much more stiff) I am sure the results would be different
Whoa.. a 30i is a particularly tender boat??? Clearly it is representative of a stiff production boat of the 30 foot size compared to the others. The test clearly shows the more comfortable boats are heavier boats with more mass righting moment.

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That different performance with lots if wind and short waves upwind is the weak point of many modern mass production cruisers like Hunter, Catalina, Oceanis or Dufour (just to mention some). To go really fast on those conditions you need a much stiffer performance cruiser like for instance a Xp or First. It would no be more comfortable, or at least it will have a completely different motion:.
Paulo
No, clearly comfort is related to mass and associated hull/keel design.. I am continually amazed that this simple fact seems to escape you.

I also don't see Hunter and Catalina which traditionally have heavier boats equivalent to the Oceanis which tends to be lighter.

Sorry.. you are wrong.
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post #558 of 847 Old 12-27-2012
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Re: German Yacht Magazine Article on Full vs. Fin Keel

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Whoa.. a 30i is a particularly tender boat??? Clearly it is representative of a stiff production boat of the 30 foot size compared to the others.
.....
Sorry.. you are wrong.
Bryce
Sure, you are right as usual

The Jeanneau 30 has a B/D ratio of only 24%, the Jeanneau 33i has 32%, the Benetau First 30 has 29%, Dehler 29, 37%, Dufour 335 has 28%, Hanse 325 has 29%, A31 has 40%, the Elan 310 has 28%, Delphia 31 has 33%, Benteau Oceanis 25%, Bavaria 33 26%.

Most of these boats have or more draft or more modern and efficient keels that will make the difference in RM even more meaningful. To my knowledge there are no other 29/33ft as tender in the market as the Jeanneau 30.

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post #559 of 847 Old 12-27-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

My 30' full keel has a B/D ratio of about 25% (3800lb ballast/15,000 disp)
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post #560 of 847 Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Full or fin keel?

My previous generation by 3 or 4 Jeanneau, has 2400 to 6500 lbs of boat. With a 5.5' draft.

At the end of the day, if the boat works for your purpose, keel design and where the ballast is set at works, away you go! enjoy your boat! I'll still take my Jeanneau over an equal Catalina with a lead keel, I may heel a bit more, but I am faster in all but light winds!

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
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