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  #701  
Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Paulo,

I would agree that J-Boats is probably building a reasonable high tech newish boat. Even still, when you look at the new models, it is J-boat. Look at Elan and Beneteau for two, and they have boats that cruise, then some race, and a couple do both to a degree. X-Yacht is getting into this mold now that they are getting bigger per say too.

Most of the J's I see around puget sound any how, are the what I would call more full bore racers, 105's for example. There is still sorta a J30 class still racing, lots of 24's, just enough 109's to make a 1d race every two yrs or so. I ca say the same for the b 36.7......C&C 115......mybe all of 7 or 8 in the whole of the salish sea.

But I would say most buy PB's here. As the wind will be light enough, or yo have to fight currents, that to get anywhere, you motor a lot! I know of one fellow that has been racing his 40' IOR style boat for 20 some odd years, he is looking to get a mid 40' sticker to cruise in! makes better time to and from etc. He can get a nice set up one for less money with more space than an equal sailboat. altho it doe cost way mre to operate........

marty
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  #702  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Depends on where you sail. If I was doing an ocean passage I'd want a full keel, a fin in heavy seas is much more apt to be squirrelly. If you are not on open seas a fin is much more maneuverable. I had a Cal 9.2 that turned on a dime. But in big following seas one must be really be diligent at the helm. It's a great deal of work. The above 3/4 keel and skeg hung rudders are a good compromise. I plan on blue water cruising, Bermuda...ocean crossings. My choice for that is full...
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  #703  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

would note boat like Hannah's with dagger boards aft are said to track wonderfully in following sea. My new boat given hull shape aft and rudder design also is known to track and surf without issue. Properly designed bulbed fins and modern centerboards with daggerboards seem to have this issue solved. Ability to point and made good days run in light/moderate air remain failings of most full keeled boats. Keeping boat comfortable at or beyond hull speed remain favorable attributes of outbound,boreal and modern crop of euro boats.
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  #704  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

I would agree that J-Boats is probably building a reasonable high tech newish boat. Even still, when you look at the new models, it is J-boat. Look at Elan and Beneteau for two, and they have boats that cruise, then some race, and a couple do both to a degree. X-Yacht is getting into this mold now that they are getting bigger per say too.

...
marty
The J122 is a performance cruiser that can race while the J111 and J105 are more of a racer.

The only reason that prevents J boats to make what Xyachts do, with a full line of racers, performance cruisers and cruisers is ....MARKET, I guess. Simply there is not a big enough market for more expensive and fast sailboats in America.

Some time back I talked with the Salona guys regarding the American market. They said to me that they were more interested in the Asian market that was a lot more interesting. They had only sold a boat to America but several to Asia and Australia.

The owner of that American Salona 37 is a member of this forum. He says wonders about his boat and even so they only managed to sell one

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 03-14-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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  #705  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daledog View Post
Depends on where you sail. If I was doing an ocean passage I'd want a full keel, a fin in heavy seas is much more apt to be squirrelly. If you are not on open seas a fin is much more maneuverable. I had a Cal 9.2 that turned on a dime. But in big following seas one must be really be diligent at the helm. It's a great deal of work. The above 3/4 keel and skeg hung rudders are a good compromise. I plan on blue water cruising, Bermuda...ocean crossings. My choice for that is full...
Daledog, Many of us here in N. America thought the same as you and most still do about the full keel/fin keel in heavy seas etc. But like outbound said those ideas are outdated. The new designed boats being built over in Europe have solved those problems for open ocean crossing. And we here in N. America still remain clueless that for the last 10 years on the other side of the pond they have been enjoying wonderfully built boats that behave better in many ways than our traditional boats on all points of sail in big water as well as small water.

Boy if you have not read the "interesting boat" post take a look at it there is lot of good stuff in it.

cheers
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  #706  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Are the race boats of the past ready to become a cruiser? Will J-111 and J-105 be converted or junked? What do you see as options for sailors that are in the Nth / Sth America? Good day, Lou
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Regarding J boats there is many times a big confusion and with a certain reason:

The boats have a similar look and contrary to other brands that somehow identify by the name racers and performance cruisers( like for instance Xyachts that have XR, XP and XC), J boats don't do it, they just are J boats, racers and performance cruisers alike.

But if you look at the interiors it is easy to separate racers from performance cruisers:

J105





J111





J109







J122







J133





So, yes, you can cruise in a J105 or J111 but even if they have the minimum indispensable (they are offshore racers) you can only do that in a spartan kind of way.

The J109, J122 and J133 even if they were utilized mainly for racing have a good cruising interior, can cruise comfortably like that and they can be easily improved with added tankage and some minor improvements. They are a great base for a great a seaworthy and fast performance cruiser and with some luck they can even have been rigged already that way.
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Last edited by PCP; 03-14-2013 at 10:34 PM.
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  #708  
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Re: Full or fin keel?

I have a Crealock designed Dana 24. It has what can be considered a full keel, but with the foremost section cutt away. Despite their small size,these boats are exceptional for their ocean going capability.

I,ve sailed sevaral fin keel designs in deliveries and have noted their less than stellar behavior when beating into head seas. The relatively flat hull shape forward makes hard slams rather than slicing through the seas. Big shakes and slams are indications of stress and have got to be more fatiguing structurally
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Forgive me for getting off topic Finn vs full. One of the advantages I see to the modern fin keel boat is not using wood. Why do they take a J- boat sparten as it is and put wood inside? Will this not increase the amount of work needed to maintain the boat? The EU from what I am looking at likes to use more wood below decks ? The craft work and detail is very good. I would like plastic fiber glass and limited SS.
My dad had a wood boat. Winter for me as kid was spent on my back sanding. I do not want to sand , stain, varnish, paint any more wood unless the pay rate is great. Good day, Lou
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Re: Full or fin keel?

Lou,

Generally speaking, the interior wood is not an issue from a maintenance standpoint. I re varnished all the interior of my boat 4 yrs ago, that was the first coats of varnish since it was new 20 yrs before. now outside on deck etc......oh yeah, any wood will need some work every year or two or three depending upon the type, how you want it to look etc.

marty
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