Full or fin keel?

[Faster]

Originally Posted by barefootnavigator

...... If you haven't seen what happens when a fin keel hits a reef at 6 knots you should come to the Pacific North West and visit any boatyard, its pretty scary. Just a few thoughts

True enough, but I'd think the premise would be to avoid such encounters.. I know accidents happen but I'd hate to think that ramming a rock would be a frequent enough occurrence to dissuade me from a particular boat type...

[barefootnavigator]

Like I said just my 2 cents. Here in the Salish Sea we have 13' tidal fall, 6 plus knot currents, frequent heavy weather, un-charted rocks, fog, blah, blah, blah, I was surprised how many experienced people hit things around here.
PS you know the old saying, if you haven't been aground, you haven't been around.

[blt2ski]

Barefoot,

Both faster and myself are in the salish sea, we know about the 13-14' tide changes......both of us prefer fin keels! Hell, I've even run my fin keel aground once or twice or.......ok, maybe I'd better shut up on that one.....

The point being, in our lighter winds, a lighter fin style boat will keep you sailing longer than a heavy fin keel that is less SA/disp than a higher AS/disp fin.

I was looking at a march or maybe feb sail magizine the other day, there is an article with the authors dream boat. One thing he mentioned, easy to move so it would sail under light winds. Also made some comments about some areas of the world, Puget Ound was one, taller mast and more SA for the light wind days.

Now does a fin equal an easily driven hull? not sure, but it is easier to move than a full keel.

marty

[blt2ski]

onebetter look at this thread if one feel one can not runa fin keel aground per say and do bottom work. This happens in the UK etc ALL the time! picture if it works, which is in the thread is in northern Wales, boat IIRC is 42', and has a 7' draft.

Marty

[barefootnavigator]

Very good point and this is where design, skill, and sail quality and inventory come into play. I sail a very small, heavy 22' full keeler that can kill a standard 30' fin on any point of sail in light winds. I also sail engine-less which might be why I purchased a high performance boat. I purchased the boat for blue water so performance and safety were at the top of my list. At the end of the day its all about personal preference. My sailing skills are average at best so I chose a boat that I knew would take care of me. I guess another factor in choice might be price, you can drop 10 grand on an old full keel plastic fantastic and set off to see the world. Fin keel boats have there place as do full keel boats, I've owned both.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by barefootnavigator

A full keel boat can be safely careened for a quickie bottom job, try that with a fin keel.

The Copelands careened Baghera to repair a rudder bearing. There is a photo in one of the boats.

[blt2ski]

Even your 3'6" of draft, 2' less than mine would not have gotten you into Fishermans bay on lopez at about 11:30 am on july 1 last summer. Tide was a -2.5, channel is dredged to 5' at 0 tide! While you would not have waited as long to get into it after low tide as I did, you would still be waiting! altho not as long as another fellow with his Cat 420mkII with a bit over 7' of draft! Both his and another were sitting on the ground at the dock when low tide hit in the marina! neither suffered any damage. I bumped going in......

Generally speaking, at least off of Edmonds where I am, my depth guage does not work, as it is usually deeper than 400', so reality is, there are VERY few spots here in the sailish sea one needs to WORRY about draft as compared to the east coast.

Then your boat is smaller in WL, weighs 1500 more lbs than mine, 100# less SA........maybe you can out point me, then again...........I doubt you will sail faster ALL the time. One can get a fin to lie ahule, yeah a bit harder, but one can do it!

At the end of the day, there is not a right or wrong. Only what one thinks will suit them best.

[Jeff_H]

Originally Posted by barefootnavigator

This is just my 2 cents and all its worth. I must have missed it but did anyone mention the safety factor of being able to heave to? If you have ever been in a third world boat yard you will appreciate the ease and safety of hauling out a full keel vs a fin keel. A full keel boat can be safely careened for a quickie bottom job, try that with a fin keel. If you haven't seen what happens when a fin keel hits a reef at 6 knots you should come to the Pacific North West and visit any boatyard, its pretty scary. Just a few thoughts

Not in any detail but being able to hove to really can add to the safety of the boat. Boats heave to as a system which balances rig and keel. Not all full keel boats heave to equally and some will not heave to very well. And while most fin keel boat will heave to, they tend to make more leeway and some need to have sail reduced and some fin keel boats won't heave to at all.

For that reason, I generally suggest that potential boat buyers include heaving to as a part of a seatrial if they are not familiar with a design, and that boat owners practice heaving to in various conditions to learn.

Good point about groundings. As mentioned fin keels need to be carefully engineered to survive an impact. There is a lot of leverage. The good news is that with a bolt keel, the boat can generally be rebuilt good as news rather than totalled if it is kept afloat without flooding.

By the same token, encasulated keels are especially vulnerable to damage in a hard grounding, and many, if not most full keel fiberglass boats have encapsulated keels. Once breached, an encapsulated keel is almost impossible to get back to a 'like new'.

Jeff

[tdw]

Having all too recently run over a mooring line and ended up with the whole thing wrapped up in prop shaft and a nearly submerged tender I can well see one of the arguments for a full keel but overall I'm afraid I'll still stick with fin and try and be a tadge more careful.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by barefootnavigator

.. I sail a very small, heavy 22' full keeler that can kill a standard 30' fin on any point of sail in light winds. ...

What do you mean by that "kill" thing? You mean if you manage to ram the light boat you can sink it?

Regards

Paulo