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Difference between alcohol & kerosene stove?

28K views 53 replies 15 participants last post by  Leocat66 
#1 ·
Hi all,
I am starting a 9 year restoration of a steel yacht which currently has LPG fuel systems on board which I plan on discarding. I sailed for a few years with a wonderful European kerosene stove (which I am trying to find something similar). In my search, I have come across a handful of alcohol stoves. Do these stoves run on the same principal as kerosene and perhaps with only a change of jetting will work w/ kerosene? I don't want to be foolish with a conversion, but if it is a standard swap I will entertain the idea.

A used taylor cooker (030L) or something similar would be ideal. Any thoughts on an excellent model? I will make a purchase now if I find the right stove.

Also wondering about converting my LPG stove w/ Primus type burners. But that may be foolish.

Thanks.

Jay
 

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#3 · (Edited)
No reason to remove the lpg systems..if your scared of it make sure you have proper solenoid and sniffers in the system. In all cases you should have carbon monoxide detectors
9 years???? I should live so long!

interesting contrast in the photos.. wish you well!
 
#4 · (Edited)
I much prefer the kerosene primus type.over alcohol. If you've already learned the fine points of operation you are already ahead of the fleet. Safer too. Kerosene burners are cheap and available in India (internet) I preheat with a handheld propane torch to reduce the fumes. LPG is is so handy and effective though.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I found the alcohol stove I had, which was a bit different, was very efficient for cooking. It used cotton-wicked canisters, which provided an even flame and no possibility of a flareup or spill. The flame was regulated by a flat plate that snuffed out either a portion of the flame for lower heat, or covered the canister completely, which snuffed out the flame altogether. The cost of denatured alcohol, however, is pretty high.

Now I have LP, it's very safe when you have a solenoid and sniffer installed, as posted above. A 20-pound propane gas tank will last you most of a year if you're cooking on the stove-top several days a week. The LP gas oven consumes a lot more, but I don't know of an alcohol or kerosene oven.

I did a bit of research and found the old stove I had. It was made by Origo and gimbled. Here's a photo of the stove.



Good luck, and the restoration looks great,

Gary :cool:
 
#6 ·
We lived with a pressurized alcohol stove (similar in principle to kerosene - ie preheat/light/use) for 10 years or so. Finally switched to Propane and never looked back. Used with common sense, a good appliance and good practice it's quite safe. Aside from ease of lighting and faster cooking, the fumes and high cost of the proper fuel was a major PITA with the pressure alcohol.

We've sailed with friends who use the wick type alcohol stove like Gary posted above, they are a much better idea, but still slower than propane and somewhat less convenient. However they do lack the power draw that a proper solenoid-equipped propane system has.

But we'd never go back to a pressurized system that required pre heating etc like kero or alcohol.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for your replies. There is no question that I will be ripping the LPG system out - for many reasons, firstly being availability of LPG worldwide. I plan on departing the US within months of launching and kero or diesel is everywhere. Secondly, I am familiar with many deaths and injuries from LPG - as a full time firefighter I see its effects all the time. There is an entire house missing less than one mile down the street from my home... few pieces found were larger than 4' x 4'!. You can have all the LPG in your enclosed space that you like and you can depend on all the electronics you can muster to keep an eye on you. Salt air kills electronics, LPG kills boats. Don't mean to be rude here... just clear. Forgive me.

Flare ups on the kero stove were always entertaining - but never much more than that.

Thanks for the thoughts on the alcohol stove. The 38'er that I lived on nearly burned to the ground from an alcohol fire prior to my purchasing it. The owner was a world sailor who had a bad day with his stove. He was severely burned in the event. The reason I mention alcohol stoves is only to consider them as a unit to change over to kero. I am wondering at this point if anyone can target that question specifically. Thanks! I hope you don't think I am rude in this post. I am just clear that I love the kero! Yup! I hadn't mentioned that the same fuel line may go to my heater, pending the stove does not have one built in.

Jay
 
#19 ·
Thank you for the first-hand report on the effects of propane. I am absolutely with you there. As some propane-proponent said earlier in this thread, when used correctly propane is 'quite safe.' Sorry, that does not cut it for me! It is my life and that of my family that is at stake, 'quite safe' is not good enough!

The only reason for the popularity of propane that I can see is that it is just as at home. I admit I have used propane, on charter boats where I had no choice, but there is no way I am going to give up my kerosene stove on my own boat.

Finally, to your question: The answer is an unqualified YES. If you have a pressurized alcohol stove (we are obviously not talking about the wicked versions), the only thing you have to change are the burners. I have a converted pressurized alcohol stove myself that I run for more than 10 years now.

And, for the nay-sayers, a properly tuned and operated kerosene stove does NOT smell. And even though kero (paraffine, jet fuel, ...) is available world-wide and incredibly cheap, this is not the reason why I use it, it is the inherent safety of the fuel.
 
#10 · (Edited)
yes, that is very much what I have in mind. However, the price tag is not in my league. I am not wealthy.. but I am very handy brazing, fitting, welding, etc. That is why I purchased this vessel in the condition that it is in. The vessel is an extraordinary hull built in Holland that needs a whole lot of work - but in the end she will again be a fine yacht. There is no other way I could do this...

Back to the stove... I am looking for a very nice stove that I can afford. That is why I am asking about the alcohol stoves... I have seen a handful out there that look very well built and will increase the end value of this rebuild. My question remains... can an alcohol stove be readily refit into a kerosene? or are they completely different.

Thanks for the chatter. More is welcome... still don't have this figured out. For reference, I am looking at spending a couple of hundred bucks for a refitable sleeper somewhere.. I have nothing but time to find it, but I still need to know what is worth looking into.

Thanks!

Jay
 
#16 ·
My question remains... can an alcohol stove be readily refit into a kerosene? or are they completely different.
NO. :eek: only way it could work is to scavenge the burner/s out of a kerosene heater. It's a cage burner that super heats the kero as it wicks up to the burner ring.
 
#11 ·
My question remains... can an alcohol stove be readily refit into a kerosene? or are they completely different.
I've converted two alcohol stoves over to propane, but not to Kerosene. It was trial and error on the first one, drilling extra holes in the diffuser cup until I got a nice flame. If I were in your shoes, I'd get a free alcohol stove from someone, take it to the shop, pour kerosene in it and see if it works and then start making adjustments from there. Alcohol stoves are pretty cheap around here because folks are pulling them out in favor of something else. When you find something that works, get the alcohol stove you like and then apply what you learned.
 
#12 ·
The Dickenson carb can run well on light stove oil or diesel. Never tried it on kero .The primus preheat burner types tend not to like the heavy stuff and will require a lot deckhead cleaning. Price of fuel keeps me heating with wood and cooking with barbi on deck or electric below .If plugged in ,easy. If cruising may have to plan a bit and run the Kybota for galley, freezer and recharge.It also can haul the anchor (hydraulic) so my life is full of executive decisions but the best is the Panasonic microwave /convection oven. If I save 10 bucks a day to not run the Atlantic stove unless it's a cold ,dark and stormy night i've got my Appletons for free.
 
#14 · (Edited)
erps, great video! A whale under the keel.... explain that feeling to the nautically challenged! Wonderful...

In following everyones thoughts further it occurred to me that the way to look at this is; in an ideal world (for my boat anyways) I'd love to try diesel for the main fuel for everything. My history with kero has been favorable and I have wondered about using straight diesel, but I have never seen it in use for a stove or heater. My boat is certainly tanked for it. In thinking about this does anyone have any experience with diesel for the stove fuel? I am used to the obvious fume issue from kero... I wonder if diesel is much different?

The thoughts you have posted are steering me toward looking for a used alcohol stove and converting it. Looking further into that would anyone know of a PROVEN REPUTABLE dealer for the primus parts for kero and also a link to parts or information for diesel stoves?

Thanks!
Sail on!

ps. this photo is of Aperio after she first arrived from Florida last November. My son (14 y.o) and I are just finishing the site work for the roof structure under which she will live for the refit. Hope to have the roof up within a month or so.

J.
 

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#15 ·
The biggest problem you would have with running diesel through a kerosene stove is the smell and the fumes. With the burners set for kero they would go apeshite if you loaded them up with diesel and the soot would probably drive you from the boat.

That is not to say that a properly configured diesel stove is smelly or dirty.

I'd be interested to know where you intend sailing ? Reason for asking is twofold. First, if you intend heading for warmer climes then for mine a diesel or kero stove would be damned uncomfortable to live with , even LPG heats a cabin up in summer and secondly why do you think LPG is difficult to obtain outside of the USA ? In our part of the world LPG is probably the most common fuel for on board use and in SE Asia and the Oceanian Islands it is replacing or indeed has replaced most other portable fuel sources and in ten years time it will be even more firmly entrenched than now.
 
#18 ·
Usail

I also lived with Kerosene on my previous boat for many years without any problems. A 20 liter jug lasted many months. Available anywhere there is an airport. I had a pressurized tank that needed pumping (bicycle pump) twice a week and filling once a month out of the jug. This is for everyday cooking. No soot, no flare ups, no smell and a tiny bit of alcohol to preheat on any weather. Never had to clean the burners. Had blue flame all the time.
The only problem I ever had was a bad purchase of dirty Kero from a fisherman supplier in the Azores, cause I was lazy to go to the airport - jet fuel is very clean kerosene.
I converted my stove from a Shipmate alcohol, but I bought a conversion kit which included the manifold and four burners (1 for the oven) from Force Ten out in Vancouver Canada, they used to make conversion kits.
I wish I had a picture of the manifold - I wonder if it was a basic distribution. The burners I bought were made by Patria, in Portugal and I found they are still sold here:
Patria 207 Regulating Burner Kerosene / Alc. (Portugal) [Patria Part #207K/207A] - $75.00 : A & H Enterprises, A & H Enterprises is the only North American service center for Optimus and Svea stoves.

At $75, pricey, but unlike the gas one, they last forever.

If you find a way to build the manifold, please let me know as I am also thinking about going back to kerosene.
 
#32 ·
Usail

I also lived with Kerosene on my previous boat for many years without any problems. A 20 liter jug lasted many months. Available anywhere there is an airport. I had a pressurized tank that needed pumping (bicycle pump) twice a week and filling once a month out of the jug. This is for everyday cooking. No soot, no flare ups, no smell and a tiny bit of alcohol to preheat on any weather. Never had to clean the burners.
I don't want to hijack this thread away from its original purpose, so could someone PM me about getting rid of the kerosene odor? I have a Shipmate stove/oven pressurized system. I cleaned the burners regularly, and I believe it has a filter, but the system reeks when used. Since I lived with I couldn't detect the odor, but my family told me I smelled like rat poison. The odor permeated my clothes, sheets, books, everything on the boat. I've stopped using the stove and oven because of it, but if there is a way to make the smell disappear entirely, I may go back to using it. If not, I'll take it out of the boat and put it up for sale.
 
#20 ·
Thank you all very much. Your replies give me a very solid start and now at least I have an idea what direction I can move in.

I did not know about the aviation fuel being kerosene... a very good thing to know!

To answer the question where am I going with this vessel? The short answer is that after a few deaths of my closest friends recently I realized that prior to leaving this wonderful planet for good, I would very much like to at least see it. I have read many of the books written by those who have managed to make the trip in a way similar to my requirements (not much cash, but fairly handy with the tools). Previously, I lived on my wooden double ender between Maine (USA) and South America. I tried to talk my fiance into making the big loop and she didn't have any interest. She is still of the same opinion. But I came to realize that now is the time for me to go... on my own if need be. I only hope I am able to survive long enough to complete the event! Departing when the kids are old enough to make the decision whether or not they want to climb aboard. Sure hope they do! Not many others I know understand the drive... it is so strong I am not able to describe it.

Life is not just 'good'.... it's awesome.

Sail on!
 
#22 ·
All this seat of the pants combustion engineering :rolleyes: kinda bothers me. I've been around fuel burning equipment all my life.. I know enough about all kinds of burners to NOT be trying to do things when properly engineered fuel burning equipment is out there. Any fuel that has reached a burner is GAS.. how it's made and delivered to the BURNER is the reason people and property get hurt and damaged. Canister gas equipment is safe.. the people using it aren't.. fuel oil burning equipment has dangers also.. they just don't fail as easy to "operator error" If someone has to carry small torches or some kind of lighting fluid to light a preheater for a fuel oil burner.. the danger is about the same as having lpg on board...less the lpg sniffer, solenoid.. of course no one has ever forgot to turn the valve off after using a hand held torch. set a candle on a paper plate...made a torch out of rolled up paper... all things that caused safety engineers to develop flame sensors, thermocouples, fire eyes. (photocell) pre and post purging draft...

People please? ... just buy or obtain properly designed fuel burning equipment.. why be doing things half A$$ just to save a few bucks? You don't really think the insurance company won't find the cobbled equipment if the boat burns to the water line do you? Insurance companies are in business to NOT pay out money.. would you design a MOB system to save a few bucks and take your family out in questionable weather?

I'm not trying attack anyone.. I'm just saying.. please think. before you start modifying fuel burning equipment.. I know it all looks simple.
 
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#23 · (Edited)
Seriously... Denise,
You are correct... I could purchase a new-in-the-box diesel stove for $3,000.00 and have it installed by a "professional" for another $1,200.00 at the marina while tied up the their dock for $60.00 a day. Or, as I look at it, I can find a beautiful used stainless stove box for a couple of hundred bucks, install a nice burner system all cleanly welded and joined by yours truly, build a beautiful 3 gallon reservoir for the fuel and sail off the hook with an extra $3,500.00 in the cruising kitty. In the end, I know the entire system and can repair any part of it anywhere in the world.

Having said that, placing your faith in todays engineers and insurance companies is not for me. Having them around is one thing, even handy at times. But....

Sail on!
 
#25 ·
Seriously... Denise,
You are correct... I could purchase a new-in-the-box diesel stove for $3,000.00 and have it installed by a "professional" for another $1,200.00 at the marina while tied up the their dock for $60.00 a day.


:laugher Not what I was saying all.. I'm just asking everyone to be careful :laugher
 
#26 ·
There must be some advantage in developing a resume of skills and abilities over a long period of personal growth. Includes caution and common sense. Doing it right and knowing it's right can get you sailing (watch for reefs ,rocks and hubris) For some, waiting for a poorly skilled technician and writing cheques would appear to be the way to get the dream boat out of the boatyard. Each to their own.
 
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