Documentation - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-13-2004
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
seame is on a distinguished road
Documentation

You can register a vessel just about anywhere. We had the same issue with dual nationality.

One boat was registered in Julianhaab, Greenland as that was it''s original point of departure. Another boat, though we purchased it in England, we registered it in St. Croix, US Virgin Islands. This gave us the ability to keep the boat for extended periods of time in the US. But we could have just as easily documented the vessel in England or Denmark.

Depending upon where you are traveling depends on where you want the boat registered. For example Australian boats can stay indefinitely in New Zealand waters, but not vice versa.

The British flag carries less political stigma than the US and also many countries assume that US citizens have more money than others. So lots of options for making a decision.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 03-13-2004
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
castan is on a distinguished road
Documentation

seame, we don''t understand. Are you talking about forming a company just about anywhere, then documenting the boat in the name of the company in the country where the company gets formed ?

If not, is there another way to document? What are the requirements? Who do we contact?

Sorry for all the questions but we''re confused. ~ Chris
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 03-19-2004
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 72
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Mkfcdl is on a distinguished road
Documentation

My wife and I have had similar problems due to different citizenships--she''s Canadian and I''m U.S. We bought our boat in Canada where it was provincially "licensed"--similar to state registration in the U.S. The boat''s been here for nearly 2 years now and I''ve never been questioned--the Coast Guard seems to only care that the vessel has some sort of up to date official papers and that the boat is safe as per U.S. regs. Actually, a friend who''s in the USCG said that even if we had violations of U.S. regs the Coast Guard can only tell us what''s wrong but can''t fine us because of Canadian registry! Our boat is clean, safe, and organized and I think that helps officials feel better about a vessel.
However, we''re about to leave the U.S., probably for a long time, to go cruising. We also have concerns about carrying a U.S. flag abroad these days. Our solution was to register the boat through a corporation in the U.K. and thus enjoy the British flag protection. However, because my name was on the original sales document along with my wife''s, I had to "sell" her my half of the boat since the corporation is in her name (professional liability protection tactic). It wasn''t cheap--around $5000; however, it''s good for 5 years and the renewal is around $800 US. It was still cheaper than the $16,000 US we would have paid for state registration, by the way.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 03-19-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,120
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 13
WHOOSH is on a distinguished road
Documentation

Castan and the group:

This thread seems to be roaming around quite a bit, with suggestions being offered based on terrorism threats, cost, legalities, citizenship and more. Quite a realistic portrayal of the realities of cruising, IMO, as things outside the U.S. are far more ''grey'' than they are black & white. And sometimes, they can be the most ambiguous in the most rule-bound of countries - which is a fair description of the EU environment, e.g.

Castan, you''re making a decision you''ll live with for some time so I''m not sure any BB posting (mine or any other) is where you should be seeking your info. Perhaps you should talk with a helpful new boat broker who deals with this issue all the time when selling upscale boats to customers just like yourselves: not tied down to the U.S., perhaps of dual citizenship, and who wish to to do something other than walk over to the local Tax Collector''s Office. A knowledgeable broker will know far more than any of us possibly can, as they wrestle with this many times each year. (You might seek some referrals from fellow [new] boat owners).

However, it would be helpful to seek that advice while armed with some basic info:
1. You seem focused on your ability to leave the U.S., thereby wondering why you need be registered anywhere. As I tried to point out earlier, the world''s view of your boat -ultimately - won''t be the same. Fight it or not, you need to make a choice or one will be made for you. And as you make that choice, examine what obligations you have re: equipping and operating the boat under that country''s flag. (As one example, also mentioned above, putting a British flag on your boat obligates you to things; wouldn''t it make sense to know what they are?)
2. Yachtsman are far more ''targeted'' by virtue of being viewed as ''rich yachties'' in the first place, the type of boat they have and where they choose to cruise than by their flag. One of the fortunate facts about cruising is that most people in the world can and do distinguish between we Americans as a ''people'' and the U.S. as a country. But if you have a concern, simply don''t stick your flag up in the air if you sit in a port you think will be unfriendly to your flag; that''s always an option. (And why folks would think a Red Duster is a generally safe flag to fly these days escapes me...)
3. Your boat can be ''owned'' and therefore registered/documented in the name of a legal entity or in the name of one or both of you. Since you really should have wills and powers of attorney to begin with, especially so if cruising offshore, your individual financial equity in the boat can be protected outside probate via wills...which means registration can be done based on overall cost and simplicity vs. just based on your different citizenships.
4. Whether all of this is more or less important is a function of where you realistically plan on cruising. Based on a lot of different sources, I don''t see the form of registration/documentation of a boat to make any significant difference for the vast majority of the cruising venues visited by yachts today. If you plan to visit the Middle East or Indonesian Waters e.g., that may be a different story...but if your plans - realistically - are more typical (SoPac, C America & Caribbean, W Europe, the Med), your risks are unlikely to come from registration decisions UNLESS you head out with the vessel unregistered. At that point, you''re fair game and you''ll be had by someone, somewhere with little to say about it.

I''m sympathetic to the fact that this isn''t an easy issue to address but getting frustrated about it isn''t going to help much. Look at it as one simple introduction to cruising, which is what it is. The further afield you go, the more of these that will surface. The trick is to keep it in perspective and realize its just one small piece of an overall rewarding lifestyle.

Jack
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 03-20-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,371
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 11
capttb is on a distinguished road
Documentation

FYI I applied for transfer of documentation in mid December & was recently told by broker that the process can take up to a year right now and letter from Documentation Company or Service stating that application had been made was acceptable to CG & others at this time. I haven''t attempted to verify this yet just putting it out there, anyone got documents lately & how long did it take?
Also I know that from my home port, I wouldn''t sail past the Nuclear Plant, Marine Base & Naval Yard with a Liberian Flag and not expect an armed escort. The idea of British or Canadian does seem a little more discrete in foreign waters and fine domestically also these days.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 03-20-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 654
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
hamiam is on a distinguished road
Documentation

I spoke to the documentation people last week; on the recreational side they are back logged for several months. They are currently working on applications received in November ''03.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 03-20-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,120
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 13
WHOOSH is on a distinguished road
Documentation

There is a similar thread on documentation at the ssca.org website (visit Cruising Discussions BB) where an accelerated processing option is discussed. Turnaround was recently changed from many months to a week or a bit more; the fee seemed reasonable given the change in the timeline.

Jack
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 03-21-2004
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 97
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
c172guy is on a distinguished road
Documentation

To document a boat in the US you must have an address!!! Maybe a PO box will be enough. I would also expect that the state of the address on the documentation will expect that you register your boat in their state. Also you must have a port of record. Though the port of record is not required to be the same as your address. When we retire we''ll probably use my brother''s address for documentation and registration purposes. I was told that you need some claim to a state to register your boat there. Such as that''s where you vote,driver''s license ,family lives there, last owned a house there. But if your driver''s license is from south carolina and your boat is documented in North Dakota and state registration is New York inquiring minds might ask questions. Especially if you have been living on the boat in Florida for six months.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 03-21-2004
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
castan is on a distinguished road
Documentation

Thank you everyone for your reponses. We have learned a few things from this discussion, some amusing, some pertaining to our original question and some informative.

Here''s a summary of what we now know as a result of this thread and elsewhere:
1. We are not required to document or state register(no fixed abode) although it would be prudent to do one or the other.
2. To document in the UK is the least expensive option by far at 12 GBP, or in the US for around $150 one time fee.
3. We can document in the UK because I''m a British national.
4. We can document in the US because my wife is a US citizen.
5. We can fly whatever flag we choose (our choice will most likely be the UK ensign) regardless of where we document, as there is no law pertaining to flags, only customs and etiquette (Some people may be surprised by this situation).

If nothing else, we''ve learned that it''s not such a complicated, nor expensive proceedure to get the necessary ''papers'' together for our boat and new cruising lifestyle. ~ Chris

Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 03-21-2004
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 26
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
bidet is on a distinguished road
Documentation

I applied for Documentation for our C-42 early December. Had the broker check on it a couple of weeks ago, they told him they are currently running 4 1/2 months behind. problem is they are Federal and have only one office doing all the work.

Bill
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coast Guard Documentation? grommet Boat Review and Purchase Forum 18 10-04-2012 09:44 AM
Documentation sailnaway Boat Review and Purchase Forum 4 11-10-2003 04:51 PM
sonar ''triscan'' by ''sonarscan'' documentation FIDDLER2 Gear & Maintenance 0 07-31-2002 07:17 AM
US documentation for UK boat? Headman Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 06-11-2001 03:10 PM
Documentation westda General Discussion (sailing related) 0 03-22-2001 03:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:09 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.