Where to Go

[sadie14]

Jack, I misunderstood you! I thought you meant you posted the information on Sailnet''s boards and to search there.

By the way, have you any experience with "Your First Atlantic Crossing" 2nd Edition, by Les Weatheritt?

[WHOOSH]

Sadie:

''By the way, have you any experience with "Your First Atlantic Crossing"...?"

Nope. I''ve seen it on the shelves, only.

If you weed out from most guides the info on the destinations (e.g. Azores) and the ''How to prep your boat...'' content, which is available from many other sources, most of the important info which remains is about weather systems, routing strategies, and methods for pulling down wx info. Those are useful topics to have well nailed down for any planned passage, including the seveal scenarios you are currently considering. Give some good thought about how you plan to obtain useful wx f''cast data when in the Boonies (there are a number of alternatives, depending on what radio equip. you have on board), but the trick is to have a plan and to know how to use the info you get. (I continue to find it challenging to understand wx systems and so it remains a ''learn as I go'' effort on my part...but at least I know from where I''m trying to get what info!<g>)

Jack

[staceyneil]

Jack and Sadie,
I have been reading this thread with great interest....Jack, I was going to email you directly for recommendations on cruising guides, but here it all is! Thanks!

As we get closer to our departure date (July!) I am starting to collect books. Our 1-2 year cruise does not have a planned itinerary yet. We''ll miss our window to do an Atlantic Crossing this year, so we''re thinking of heading "DownEast" this summer (leaving from Maine) and then south in the fall. Have not yet decided whether we''ll go coastal or offshore. If we''re far east (Nova Scotia) we might be tempted to hop to Bermuda and the Virgin Islands from there.... however our 7-yr-old has never been to Washington DC and that is a strong reason to do the coastal route, Christmas with the grandparents in FL, Bahamas, and then who knows.....

I was very interested in your routing option opinions, Jack..... I may have to email you for advice come fall when we''re making decisions (my brain is just too full of "finish the boat" and "leave land life" lists right now to be able to think carefully about this now!).

i was also glad to hear your thoughts on costs in the Caribbean. We''ve always intended to cruise cheaply (indeed our lifestyle right now is so spartan what with saving for the trip... no movies out, only eat at cheap restaurants about once a month, no new clothes, etc, that it won''t be a big change!) We''re hoping to spend about $750/month (not including insurance, boat repair, etc) and are leaving on a boat with nearly everything new after this big refit. If we can actually stick to that budget we''ll be able to stay out 2 years, even with no additional income.

One thing I''ve always assumed is that the Western Caribbean is MUCH cheaper to cruise. From your post is sounds as though this may not be true. Given that we intend to anchor out pretty much everywhere (have only $300/year budgeted for marinas) do you think that we could cruise as cheaply in the Eastern as Western Caribbean?

As usual, Jack, thanks for sharing your experience with the rest of us!

Stacey

www.sailnamaste.com

[staceyneil]

More questions on cruising guides for WHOOSH!!!

How readily available are these books once you are in the Caribbean? For example, I was looking at the pavlidis guides on line, and I could spend $130-used or $185-new for his guides to everyplace we MIGHT visit..... That''s a lot of cash and a lot of shelf space on the boat. But if we''re already in the Caribbean, will we be able to find them to buy?

On Van Sant''s "Passages South".... is it a book that we need an updated copy of? I have my parent''s, which is probably 20 years old......

Thanks!
STacey
www.sailnamaste.com

[WHOOSH]

I''m thinking we maybe should take this off-line; others must be getting pretty bored with us.<g>

I used the very first edition of VanSant''s guide and it was (relatively speaking) horrible. We used the most current edition in 2000 (6th at the time, as I recall) and I''m not sure I would have sprung for a newer version...so it depends. If your parent''s copy has abundant waypoints referenced for all the anchorages and stops, subsequent improvements are probably in degrees, not orders of magnitude. (A 20 yr old copy sounds w-a-y too dated, tho'').

Re: guide availability in the Caribbean, they are generally hard to find. You''ll find two multi-island chandelries down island: Budget Marine and Island Waterworld (I think I have those right...) and they are both great, especially when you really need something and happen to be on an island where they''re located. There are other spots where yachtie stuff is available (like a West Marine on PR''s east coast). But with exceptions like those, guides and inter-island chart series are generally not available where you''ll be stopping because many of the stops (tho'' certainly not all) are not exclusively yachtie ports.

So...what to do? It''s quite common for folks to leave with the ''first batch'' in hand and wait on the rest. For an offshore run from the Bahamas to PR such as Sadie is considering, you would carry the PR guide (Hwy 65 is Plan A), plus the Pavlidis guide for T&C since the T&C might turn out to be Plan B and it includes the approaches to Luperon DR, which will likely follow if you stop in the T&C. Once in PR - the Land of 800#s and USPS service; don''t underestimate the value of either! - you can order in the next batch you can''t find locally, sucking up the postage cost and time delay because that''s the price of not buying more upfront.

When planning to head down island, you have many target boats coming the other way from whom you can hopefully buy relatively fresh charts and guides. Look for larger, newer yachts (''richer'' owners, ideally finishing up their ''sabatical cruise'') who don''t expect to get 50 cents on the dollar. Waiting until Ft. Lauderdale (where you can dink/walk to Blue Water Books) will give you a chance to hook up with those boats. (Don''t overlook using the Cruiseheimers Net on 8.104 USB while still coming down the East Coast, explaining you''re looking...).

If you are heading S in the Spring, you''ll find boats coming back at that same time, and so subsequent purchases for islands further S might be possible; going S in the Fall, that option is more limited.

Good luck on all this prep stuff; don''t forget you owe us all a Term Paper on how it all went once you get down there!

Jack

[WHOOSH]

Oops, missed your first post when replying to your second one, Stacey.

Sorry if I misled you but in general folks spend much less in the W Caribbean than the Eastern, assuming we define ''Western'' to be between Isla Mujeres, Mexico at the NW corner and the Honduran Bay Islands at the S''n end. (No one goes to Swan Is. and to me Grand Cayman is far enough E and against the prevailing winds that it''s part of the Central Caribbean). No boat boys, few marinas or mooring fields, and just plain not much to spend money on.

There is just far less infrastructure of any kind there (with some exceptions, of course) and both Belize and the Bay Is. offer many anchorages. However, there are two exceptions re: spending money: Guatemala thinks fairly highly of their tiny coastline and, as I recall, we paid a bit over $100 USD for clearance before going up the Rio Dulce. Also, the Rio - and views differ on this - somewhat mandates a marina berth to maximize one''s physical security. Offsetting these two facts is the reality that the Rio (and the potential for cheap inland travel) is well worth the $100 ''excursion fare'' and marinas are very inexpensive there; some of them are also very nice. (We were very pleased with Tortugal, a dink ride away from town. We spent $130 or so USD in 2002 for 10 days of berthing with electricity, 3 nice meals at their restaurant overlooking the water, and 8 loads of laundry). The second exception, for which there are IMO less rewarding benefits, is Mexico''s port fees. Each Capitan de Puerto is responsible for his own area, checking in/out is mandatory as are the fees assessed, and the Mexican Navy was checking boats at anchor in Isla when we were there (4/2002) to verify compliance. Isla is a ''must stop'' for numerous reasons but I was unmotivated to clear in elsewhere along that coast; too much hassle and expense for too little benefit (tho'' that''s a personal view, I realize).

The main problem with the W Caribbean, as I see it, are the limits on what if offers beyond great water, diving and opportunities for inland travel...altho'' none of those are trifling. The Caribbean offers a huge, diverse collection of rewards (tho'' again IMO not a great many of them along the Eastern Island chain) and, when talking about 1 or 2 year chunks of time, it seems a shame to me to limit yourselves to just the W Caribbean when you can do a full circle in that same period. (E.g. I totally endorse you motoring up into the Tidal Pool anchorage, with the Jefferson Memorial off your bow, the Metro only a few blocks away and all of DC at your fingertips; now THAT''s cruising with a kid! But how can you then go to the Caribbean and not take your daughter to the first (and oldest) city in the entire New World, which today is a thriving, bustling and scenic (tho'' certainly not First World) city? And it''s only a $10 USD bus ride from Luperon''s protected anchorage if you take the local. (No chickens.<g>)

Jack

[staceyneil]

Jack, You should write your own cruising guide, methinks!!!! You have a lot of great info. So, seems like you are favoring the central Caribbean, hmm? What do you consider "central Caribbean"?

Personally, I am most interested in exploring the more non-yachtie places. And Neil would like to surf a few times if possible.

Last time I cruised was in the 80s with my folks and we did not see a whole lot of other boats outside the Virging Islands. Of course, we were in the Caribbean "off season" both times, on our way back from the Med and later en route to Panama for a South America circumnavigation. Those "off the beaten path" experiences are more what we''re after, perhaps the central Caribbean will offer more of those.

Any thoughts on heading south to Brazil? It looks like a long slog but maybe more what we''re looking for?

At this point I just want to get GOING and we''ll take it from there, but it''s nice to dream a little too. Especially after a frustrating day chasing leaks on the boat and finding that my new door handles do not fit and I didn''t have the right plumbing fittings to hook up the new vanity faucet. Argh.

Stacey

[WHOOSH]

Stacey, with your past experiences you''ll know well that different crews have differing capacities for hardship, so perhaps Brazil won''t be the challenge for you it represents for others...but while I''m very hopeful of visiting Brazil in the future, it will be from the Cape Verdes, I think. The run down from the E Caribbean looks like much effort for boats like ours, which after all weren''t set up for heavy windward work.

FWIW - all highly subjective, of course - here is what I''d offer up as the Caribbean''s cruising highlights if ''off the beaten track'', low expense, safety/security and variety were my criteria:
-- T&C (beyond Provo - gin clear waters, ''old Bahamas'' feel, good ''stepping stones'' S & E
-- DR (one coast or the other), altho'' I think Luperon has become greedy and corrupt enough (not re: safety, just trying to pinch the visitors) that a stop would probably irk me some
-- Puerto Rico, for many logistical and cruising reasons; our favorite stop bar none was to sit behind 3 reefs at La Parguera (SW corner) with the entire Caribbean Sea in front of us, no swell, good snorkeling, and find a friendly little town, nice grocery, etc. a short dink ride away; definitely not off the beaten track but inexpensive and the museums in Ponce'' and hsitorical sights in San Juan are wonderful
-- French Is. in E Caribbean chain; like being in sunny France and unique for that reason; don''t get hung up about clearance duties too much because obviously they don''t!
-- Trinidad (and Tobago for different reasons, tho'' we didn''t get there); pick up a mooring at TTSA which won''t be too expensive, avoid the Yachtie Ghetto next door in Chag Bay except for ''necessaries'' and marvel at such a rich ethnic mix and history while enjoying the nicest people I think we''ve ever met; visit the abandoned Leper Colony by boat - fascinating!
-- Basically all of the Central Caribbean, which I would define as including the S Coast of Hispaniola (don''t miss Ile a Vache''; yes, I know it''s in Haiti...), Jamaica (you, the fisherman, and few others), Grand Cayman (''the'' First World stop in the Caribbean, but North Sound is a wonderfully comfy stop, and your daughter can feed the rays at her feet), and the Honduran Bay Is. (each one different).
-- the Rio Dulce, tho'' again the check-in and marina costs need to be anticipated.
-- We did the Belize Boogie due to time pressure, but I think most folks would expect me to add Belize to the list; inexpensive, many anchorages, and remote offshore atolls that are unique in the Americas

A combo of charter fleets, much yachtie traffic these days up & down the Chain, some islands with only deep anchorages and therefore mooring fields - in fact, mooring fields in many places! - all left us underwhelmed by some of the Eastern Chain...but there were also exceptions that made island hopping painless.

Good luck with those leaks!

Jack

[sadie14]

Wonderful info - thanks so much, Jack. Please don''t take this off-line, I''m sure others are interested in the dreaming and scheming.

[staceyneil]

Yes, thanks Jack!!! We had a nice Sunday morning poring over the Atlas (no charts here!). Plans are coming together......

Stacey
www.sailnamaste.com

PS Leaks found. Very simple and rewarding! Whew!