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  #51  
Old 11-18-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
LEO's all profile. They may throw in the random counter-profile boarding, so they aren't accused of it. Think about it, if you are boarded more than average for your area.

For example, you see a rag tag sloop in poor repair at max capacity of teenagers aboard and what do you think are the odds that it has proper safety gear? It may, but the odds are lower than the 100ft flag blue custom sloop with a professional captain at the helm and the missus sitting in the cockpit with a cucumber sparkling water.


Certainly I agree with the above but around here everyone pretty much is treated the same regardless of sail or power, 15' to 50'. One strategy we use is to start the new year with a request for courtesy safety inspection and get the decal that goes with it and prominently post it on the windshield.
This reduces the number of boardings.
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  #52  
Old 11-18-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdi View Post
One strategy we use is to start the new year with a request for courtesy safety inspection and get the decal that goes with it and prominently post it on the windshield.
This reduces the number of boardings.
This spring we were coming up Currituck Sound, a big sportfisher and 3 sailboats, ducklings in a row motoring up the channel in 20-25 knot crosswinds (i.e., rough conditions). The sportfisher requested to pass, they were very courteous on the VHF. One of the sailboats was kind of a jerk, the other was unremarkable. (and of course, I'm the consummate professional thank you US Navy for the training). The Coast Guard came by in their red inflatable - obviously they'd heard the radio conversations or lack thereof - and started with the sportfisher "Captain, have you ever had a safety boarding at sea?" "Yes, about a year ago." And the CG said they were going to do it again, asked him to maintain course and speed. Maybe they just needed the rough weather boarding practice. Ten minutes later they were done.

Then the first of the sailboats; the guy who had been a jerk on the radio. Same drill from the Coast Guard, "Captain, have you ever had a safety boarding at sea?" "No." And the CG boarded him, again asking to maintain course and speed.

We were next. I'm hoping that having been professional on the VHF helped, but it didn't help the sportfisher. "Captain, have you ever had a safety boarding at sea?" "Yes, about 2 years ago in South Carolina, and just a few weeks ago we did the dockside courtesy check before we left Florida." Silence from the CG for a few minutes, then, "Thank you for taking the time to do that, have a pleasant voyage." They went on to board the other of the sailboats.

4 boats, 3 boardings, 1 courtesy sticker. I'm convinced!
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  #53  
Old 11-18-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
In Canada my boat is a private residence, and it is illegal for anyone to come aboard uninvited, without a search warrant.
Don't test that while underway - you're only a residence when the hook is dropped or you're tied up (dropping for lunch and having a beer doesn't count either - has to be you're parked for the night).

Under way you're a vehicle and they can board & inspect.
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  #54  
Old 11-19-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
In Canada my boat is a private residence, and it is illegal for anyone to come aboard uninvited, without a search warrant. To get one they have to present some pretty convincing evidence to a judge,and that can be challenged. I would never allow anyone aboard . Offshore, some sharp things sticking out, take care of any uninvited inflatables. I once ripped open a US coastguard inflatable that way. The harbour security guard said they would be scrubbing toilets for a while, for that screw up.
I wouldn't cruise any country which allows a bunch of macho foreigners to enforce their own law in their country.
We've had this discussion before on sail net and elsewhere. Canadian laws are indeed different - and in my opinion better for the citizen's protection when it comes to searches.
However, your claims are quaint, but not quiet true.
You can indeed prevent a boarding, however you can also be fined up to 300k for doing so.
The Advocate - Informing Marine Engineers about legal matters

As the article says, it's better to let them on, then make them spell out what they are looking for, and stick to looking just for that.

In both the U.S. and Canada denying a search can be grounds enough for a search warrant, especially in vehicles.
I think under Admiralty law anchored vessels are not homes, they are vehicles in transit (which is why you have the right to anchor). It's only a residence if it can't move (e.g. a RV parked is a RV).

Of course if you stray over the invisible boarder you could also get a couple of 50 cal rounds through your 1/4 steel hull just to make you a little more compliant.
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  #55  
Old 11-19-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

It is interesting that the US's Fourth Amendment was specifically written so that the King's own men could not search treasonous rebel carriages on the King's own highways. Personal carriages, carriages used intrade, for hire, whatever. "Effects" could not be unreasonably or randomly searched.

And in the 1970's some automotive search cases were held to be illegal in the US on the same grounds, then a few years later the USSC reversed itself when the states came up with the clever idea that your license was only issued IF you consented to waive your rights. Which you legally can't be asked or required to do, either.

Watercops, federal commerce clause, police powers, public safety...all very nice but unsound and illegal excuses for illegal searches these days. The Fourth Amendment is dog simple, the letters and publications written at the time it was being discussed are dog simple. No want, no warrant? No legal search, period.

Doesn't matter how the courts support the men in office or the men with guns, the searches are still illegal. Damned shame there's nothing to be done about it. Except, perhaps, to put Alice's Restaurant on the PA and then consume as much of their time as you possibly can, knowing that will prevent them from bothering anyone else while so occupied.
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  #56  
Old 11-19-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

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Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
Because that's where we live, The Key's, I have a House in Guanaja Honduras, and I deliver boats all over the Caribbean, Been living here my whole life, working commercial tug's, sailboat's, dive boat's. I work harbour tug's in and out of Miami the Bahama's. That's why I supose. Funny thing is your avitar is a happy pirate shooting a cartoon cannon.
I'm quoting my own post to clear the air. I understand Chuck "Vega" is a seagoing salt and I am Impressed with his accomplishments. Two sailnetters have alerted me to who he and has wife are. His question as to why anyone would cruise the Caribbean or S.W. fla. prompted my response, I meant no dis-respect , and as I was writing took note of his avitar and had a little chuckle, I would have said the same thing to him with a pat on the back and a smile over a pint in a pub.
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  #57  
Old 11-19-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
(snip)And in the 1970's some automotive search cases were held to be illegal in the US on the same grounds, then a few years later the USSC reversed itself when the states came up with the clever idea that your license was only issued IF you consented to waive your rights. Which you legally can't be asked or required to do, either.
Hellosailor, could you cite that decision for us? AKAIK, police still cannot search vehicles without permission unless the have a warrant. There are exceptions, driving into some designated locations that are posted "Vehicles subject to search", just as persons entering courtrooms, some other governemnt building and airports are).

The only implied consent law regarding vehicles that I know of is to submit to testing for operating under the influence (DUI).

(not really a thread hijack - germaine to the thread topic)
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  #58  
Old 11-19-2012
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

Brew,

I can't come to the rescue and cite the law, but I can say that (as I said earlier) refusal of a request to search is indeed all the probable cause (when coupled to the reasons the officer wanted to do the search e.g. shifty eyes, reefer smell, etc..) that is necessary for a warrant. I work for a police agency - in the five years I've done so not one request has been denied.
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  #59  
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Re: rammed:by the customs & border patrol

in the five years I've done so not one request has been denied.

Therein lies the problem, cops infallible???? Not a effin chance.....The judges who sign the BS warrants need to be jacked hard.

Your home is your home...moving or not. In the US it is the 4th amendment...but ACLU is not looking for that kind of fight.

Frankly, I think all your email, bank records, medical, dental, juvenile, records and etcetera should be made public...you know....for the terrorists.....
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Old 11-19-2012
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Probably not fiction. Ever since September 2001, the various 'enforcement' arms of USA governments have become exceedingly arrogant. The ancient human right of innocent passage is no longer honored, and sailors are confronted today with very well-equipped but usually-polite pirates.

The real troublemakers are the power-boaters, especially the go-fast types. When they're not ramming docks, pilings and nav aids, running up everybody's insurance rates, then they're smuggling stuff. Liquored up, with powder on their top lip. If the LEOs had any sense, they'd ignore Joe Sailor and look for Mr. Many Gold Chains.

Few sailors think that any vessel that may go max 7 knots (when the wind is just right) is the way to carry anything more interesting than a couple of long-guns, some bottles of rum, a box of Cuban cigars, and maybe an ill-clad honey or two.
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