Financing - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 01-12-2013
Heinous's Avatar
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 97
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Heinous is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

Awesome!
__________________
be excellent to each other
Beneteau First 42
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 01-12-2013
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,461
Thanks: 71
Thanked 51 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

Strange, until 2 years ago we lived aboard our boat financed through USAA and it was built in 1975. Then again, I saw the boat insurance market change from competitive bids on my boat to nothing but dial-tones in 2 years.

With insurance, if you say one thing, and they find out you ended up doing another thing, they don't pay. With loans, once they write the loan, they've written the loan, period.

I'd say that you don't really meet the criteria of living aboard. Get the loan from USAA with the intent not to live aboard and spend a little time aboard over the next six months. Fill in the blanks as they need to be filled out and don't look back. Have they REALLY defined living aboard? In a calendar year, including the time you spend at work, away from the boat, will you be on the boat for more or less than 50% of the year? Is 50% even a reasonable definition of living aboard?

Some friends I have spend more time at work or out about town than in their own houses on an hour by hour basis. What exactly counts as living aboard anyway and are you sure you meet the criteria?

Banks would use lawyers to argue the point if it came to that, so it behooves you to think like a lawyer yourself sometimes. (feels slimy I know, but then again banks, loans, and all that associated stuff is pretty slimy)

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MedSailor; 01-12-2013 at 12:53 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 01-12-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,822
Thanks: 10
Thanked 130 Times in 116 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Financing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
.....With loans, once they write the loan, they've written the loan, period......
Not so fast. This appears to be the case, as most loans are paid current and are not a priority, nor do most banks reconfirm these things.

However, if you find yourself in a bind and can't pay, there is nothing more powerful for the collection department at the bank than a strong case of fraud. If they can demonstrate intent to defraud, it is criminal. Although, just a civil action on fraud is much stronger than simply trying to get a judgement on a note or repossess collateral.
jameswilson29 likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 01-12-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,036
Thanks: 26
Thanked 64 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

...not only is fraud criminal, but it can also make the loan nondischargeable in bankruptcy if the bank should timely file a complaint for such a determination. 11 U.S.C. 523(a)(2).

This would also include use of false pretenses, a false representation ("...it will not be my primary residence..."), actual fraud, or a materially false financial statement in writing used with the intent to deceive.

The awful result: one could end up owing the loan for the rest of one's life, and would be perpetually subject to wage/bank account garnishments.

Tell the truth on loan applications. There are much worse things than being turned down for a loan. Better yet, don't finance depreciating luxury goods on credit. Only buy with disposable cash.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 01-12-2013 at 07:10 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 01-12-2013
mdi's Avatar
mdi mdi is offline
Multiman
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
mdi is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Not so fast. This appears to be the case, as most loans are paid current and are not a priority, nor do most banks reconfirm these things.

However, if you find yourself in a bind and can't pay, there is nothing more powerful for the collection department at the bank than a strong case of fraud. If they can demonstrate intent to defraud, it is criminal. Although, just a civil action on fraud is much stronger than simply trying to get a judgement on a note or repossess collateral.

Take out a disability wavier on the loan just in case
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 01-13-2013
mdi's Avatar
mdi mdi is offline
Multiman
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
mdi is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

Quote:
Originally Posted by swellbound View Post
It's pretty much impossible to obtain financing on a boat beyond 25 years old.
My boat was built in 1967, no problem with loan with USAA or insurance with BOATUS. Both wanted a survey with approved Surveyor before releasing money or covering the boat. No unusual challenges.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 01-14-2013
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,461
Thanks: 71
Thanked 51 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Not so fast. This appears to be the case, as most loans are paid current and are not a priority, nor do most banks reconfirm these things.

However, if you find yourself in a bind and can't pay, there is nothing more powerful for the collection department at the bank than a strong case of fraud. If they can demonstrate intent to defraud, it is criminal. Although, just a civil action on fraud is much stronger than simply trying to get a judgement on a note or repossess collateral.

I wasn't implying that he'd be able to keep the boat and not pay the loan. What I meant by saying "once they write the loan they've written the loan" is that once they write the loan you are usually done answering their questions.

If he doesn't pay the loan then sure, they're going to repossess it, but nobody is going to repossess a loan that is currently being paid on.

As for fraud, I wasn't encouraging any felonys here. If the contract is written is stone cold clear language about living aboard and you lie about it, then yes, that is likely fraud. What I was recommended was taking advantage of any ambiguity there might be, just as your lawyer would do.

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 01-29-2013
jobberone's Avatar
Go Cowboys
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southeast US
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 3
jobberone is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

We are currently looking for our first boat and in the market for a used 37-50 footer. We'd prefer a cat in the 37-44 range.

I talked with USAA today and we both didn't know some answers.

He stated the boat had to be bought on US soil. I wondered about that. I asked him if it needed to be registered and flagged as a US vessel as well. Then the question of certificates or whatever came up and I have no idea about that.

So if we find a boat in BVI under Costa Rican flag and ???documentation/certification/registration how do I finance that?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 01-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,822
Thanks: 10
Thanked 130 Times in 116 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Financing

Where do you plan to keep the boat?

If you are a US citizen, its going to be harder to flag it in another country, unless you set up a trust and pay attorneys for the rest of your life.

The charter companies commonly sell their inventory, but I would highly caution a new sailor from doing that. Those boats take a beating and you will pay for that in maintenance. If you're experienced, you can find a good deal.... maybe. They might, on the other hand, tip you off on where you can obtain financing down there.

Your problem is going to be insurance, even if you can find the financing. Insurance companies are not keen on taking the risk of a new sailor on a large boat. If you break it, smack into a dock, hit someone else, don't tie it to the dock properly, etc, they have to pay. They want to see that you've passed formal accredited training, have experience and no claims. While you can own a boat without insurance, you can't finance one without it.

If this is something you really think you want to do, I would spend the time and money to take a liveaboard or bareboat cruising course with your wife, instead of the captained charter. It is full time, so you won't be able to fish or scuba, but you would get a little snorkeling in. You usually have class at breakfast aboard, then have practical lessons all day and a written test at night. It isn't hard, but its intense and everyone I've known that has done it has become a reasonably good fair weather sailor in a week. Better, you will have an accredited certificate and know what you are doing.

If you can slurge, do the course over week one and then bareboat charter with just the two of you for week two. Other than the cost, the only downside I can see is that the two of you decide you don't like it. However, that would be the case with your captained charter as well.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 01-30-2013
jobberone's Avatar
Go Cowboys
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southeast US
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 3
jobberone is on a distinguished road
Re: Financing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Where do you plan to keep the boat?

If you are a US citizen, its going to be harder to flag it in another country, unless you set up a trust and pay attorneys for the rest of your life.

The charter companies commonly sell their inventory, but I would highly caution a new sailor from doing that. Those boats take a beating and you will pay for that in maintenance. If you're experienced, you can find a good deal.... maybe. They might, on the other hand, tip you off on where you can obtain financing down there.

Your problem is going to be insurance, even if you can find the financing. Insurance companies are not keen on taking the risk of a new sailor on a large boat. If you break it, smack into a dock, hit someone else, don't tie it to the dock properly, etc, they have to pay. They want to see that you've passed formal accredited training, have experience and no claims. While you can own a boat without insurance, you can't finance one without it.

If this is something you really think you want to do, I would spend the time and money to take a liveaboard or bareboat cruising course with your wife, instead of the captained charter. It is full time, so you won't be able to fish or scuba, but you would get a little snorkeling in. You usually have class at breakfast aboard, then have practical lessons all day and a written test at night. It isn't hard, but its intense and everyone I've known that has done it has become a reasonably good fair weather sailor in a week. Better, you will have an accredited certificate and know what you are doing.

If you can slurge, do the course over week one and then bareboat charter with just the two of you for week two. Other than the cost, the only downside I can see is that the two of you decide you don't like it. However, that would be the case with your captained charter as well.
Oh I agree completely. We will do this with a captain to get her feet wet on the open water. I've routinely fished 50-80 miles offshore but only power so I need to learn to sail and continue to learn the sea. If she thinks she like the sea then we'll take courses together.

I'm still in the acquiring knowledge about buying a boat but before I do I'll learn to be a newbie day sailor before purchasing it and certainly before captaining it anywhere particularly around docks and the public.

I'm looking to keep the boat at anchor in the Caribbean and SE US.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply

Tags
alberg , financial plan , financing , loan , money


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Financing A Catamaran DSK6789 General Discussion (sailing related) 10 04-02-2010 10:16 PM
financing a boat marc2don Boat Review and Purchase Forum 20 06-17-2009 09:01 AM
Owner Financing mtschindler Boat Review and Purchase Forum 2 02-22-2009 08:12 PM
Financing erdagte Boat Review and Purchase Forum 7 12-19-2004 02:19 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:37 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.