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  #21  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

Well, as long as I don't have to pull it out. I am just not the kind of person to spend $5000 dollars on a boat and $1000 to pull it and get a survey.

I've got the last minute, I'm actually leaving, what if I buy a lemon, can't get insurance, the weather is bad, the harbor kicks me out, can't park my car jitters.
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  #22  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

Hiring a decent marine surveyor will prevent you buying a lemon and blowing $5k on something that may cost you another 1k to chop up and dispose of.
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

Law of physics. A $5k boat can cost more than what you paid to make her sailable and a pro can tell you what you should focus on, if you want her anyway.

I assume a marina only wants liability, I doubt they care about you recovering anything. Again, while I suspect they will take any proof of insurance you supply, you may not be cover and still liable. Get a good agent/broker.
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  #24  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

It's just always seemed to me that it's one of those services that since people either have to get it to get insurance, or are spending alot on a boat and are nervous, that the surveyor can charge a price that is out of line with the service provided. It's not in line with other costs in this world.

A survey out of the water I think costs $1000, in water 200-500. That's completely rediculous. Mechanics don't charge that much to work on your car. I just got towed in a blizzard in Wyoming, and for the guy to come in a blizzard out in the middle of nowhere and take me to town at night it cost $150. A long haul truck driver gets $500 to go to Dallas TX at midnight, spend 2 hours getting loaded, then spend the next four days of his life, dodging police, weather, accidents, and then fight traffic in L.A. to spend 2 more hours delivering for $500.

So how does some guy charge $500 to come poke at a boat? Not happening. It's worth $100.
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

You are right. It's just a long line of costs that won't make sense. You can avoid them, but they will bite you. Get a prescription for something, if it's already getting to you.
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

So you want to spend 5k on a boat that you will sail across oceans (your previous post) but you don't want to pay for a survey or even get it hauled to look at the bottom.
PS ... the bottom is the part that holds the rest of it up.

You obviously know exactly what you are doing and I wish you good luck.
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
So how does some guy charge $500 to come poke at a boat? Not happening. It's worth $100.
Obviously, you have never followed a good surveyor while he did his job. If you had, you would see the hours he puts in and the training and years of experience it took for him to do his job. Then you would know, he is definitely worth a lot more than $100.
And you want to sail around in a $5000 clunker that hasn't even been hauled to check the condition of the bottom, let alone get surveyed.
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  #28  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

My Pearson survey was more like $550, including haul out. The price was pretty evenly split between the haul out and the surveyor.

I self surveyed my Catalina, but the Pearson is a much more complex boat and I wanted someone else to check it. What was found in the survey paid for survey in negotiation. Self-surveying can work well (though it is meaningless to insurance) as long as you are open to walking away when you find problems. If you are emotional about it then it isn't a survey.

I didn't haul the Catalina, but wish I had. Everything worked out fine (I recently saw the bottom because a friend owns that boat now), but it would have given me a lot of peace of mind to have seen it hauled. What I found in the self-survey knocked about $1000 off of the Catalina price.

In both cases more was found after words, that's just boats.
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  #29  
Old 03-18-2013
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

"So how does some guy charge $500 to come poke at a boat? Not happening. It's worth $100. "
Sounds like you've always been an employee and never self-employed.

Let's say the surveyor takes two hours on your boat, and spends another two hours in travel time, coming and going. So you want to pay them $100, which breaks out to $25/hour for the job.

Except, someone who is self-employed and running a business actually nets only about 1/3 of their billable rate, after accounting for vacation time, pension, sick time, and both halves of the social security (FICA) taxes. Someone who is real good at it, might net half of their billing rate.

And you're going to pay them a whopping net $12 per hour then, and expect them to eat the costs of gas and car mileage as part of that? Hell, they can make more than that supervising the fryer at any burger joint.

You won't find a plumber or an appliance repairman to come make a housecall for $100, why should a surveyor charge less?

Some boaters can do better for themselves than what some alleged surveyors would do, sure. And if you buy a $5000 boat that has a couple of surprises, and you sink in another three or four thousand (don't forget the rent on the ground or slip under it while you're working) and then you first find out, it can't be fixed or other folks don't want to buy it and the landfill won't take it because it is classed as hazmat, ka-ching go to the hazmat disposal site...

You might decide the surveyor, like those other guys, wasn't totally unreasonable after all.

But either way, someone needs to get some face time UNDER the boat, to see if there are problems with the keel or rudder. And with the rudder, if there is even a hairline crack in the paint, that can mean water intrusion and armature failure to come. So you really want to take a close look, hauled or not hauled.
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  #30  
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Re: How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

Whoa, I am NOT trying to insult anybody. That's not my intent. Although I disagree with a couple points made.

1. I don't think that in a big area like Seattle I am hiring a surveyor that lives an hour from the harbor. It's probably a guy that lives on a boat there or nearby I would think. So it's not 2 hours commute.

2. I am no expert, but I spent a year and a half as a bottom cleaner, so I can always put on a wetsuit and dive.

3. the boat I am likely to get had a survey done a year and a half ago when it was hauled and bottom painted, so one for insurance purposes alone seems like a waste to me.

4. I understand that in not getting a survey, I am taking more risk, but alot of sailing is taking risks, and budgeting. If I hauled and survey lets go with $550, I would rather risk it, and spend that $550 replacing halyards or some standing rigging, or getting a dingy. You have to pick and choose, and for me, I would choose something that for $550 I can have in my hand.

5. I am not intending to cross oceans, that must have been a previous post from when I was in Hawai'i with dreams bigger than my skills and I bought a Cascade 29.

I am not trying to piss anybody off, and if you choose or have chosen to have a survey done, I support your decision, because while I may feel it is overcosted, I still agree with your points that it is a good decision.

I'm also not sure that I WANT to know everything, maybe I'll get a good boat and sail the S out of it and love it, and just not worry about everything, I've seen some people on some rickety boats doing some really fun things, while I was in the harbour worrying about my standing rigging. I want to be safe, but I liked what I read the other day. It was an older guy in another boat saying he did alot of crazy S when he was young and he wouldn't do it now, but didn't regret it for a minute. Then he said, go while you are young, go small, but go now.

What if I get a survey and there are just too many little things that I shouldn't buy the boat, these are old boats...what if I don't buy it, and then I look at another boat and get a survey, and then there are too many little things to buy it, I could spend all my money on surveys!
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Last edited by northoceanbeach; 03-18-2013 at 03:47 AM.
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