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How do I get insurance and how much does it cost?

9K views 39 replies 17 participants last post by  deltaten 
#1 ·
Hi, I am looking at my next boat. It's been a while. I have never been required to have insurance. I called a marina today in Slameda California and they were very friendly. They said I needed title, registrations and insurance. Can I assume the title and registration are simple tasks just involving fees, but I don't know where to begin with insurance. Is it like with a car? Or do I have to have a costly inspection or something else. How much does insurance cost and Is it hard to get?

I'm not talking about an expensive boat. Just looking at 25-30' 1970's sailboats. Thanks for the help and I appologize for spelling, my words are invisible to me for some reason!
 
#2 ·
With a small boat that is sailed locally, you might get an inexpensive policy from your house or car insurance company. It may not have all the coverages that a more specialized insurer could provide, but it would get you into the marina. As boats get bigger and plans get more ambitious, going through someone like Boat US or some marine speciality insurer or marine insurance broker would make more sense. Also, you'll see a lot of ads for brokers and insurers in the backs of boating magazines.
 
#3 ·
There are two major things one would considering insuring. First is the value of your boat, should it be damaged or lost. You make it seem like your investment in your boat is not worth insuring and that's your choice.

The second is the liability you would have, if you damage another boat or the marina itself. The biggest liability that concerns me is environmental: fuel spills, chemicals, salvage/recovery. This is likely the one that the marina requires and regardless of the size of your boat, you should want as well.

There should be a local insurance agent that is experienced in these policies. You can get the cheapest, lowest cost policy available. However, I highly caution that you shop for value, not just the lowest price. Why have insurance that doesn't cover anything?

It should not be terribly expensive for just liability coverage, depending on your sailing resume. Hull coverage is another story and depends on age, condition, etc.
 
#4 ·
Progressive

neither my home or auto insurance provider would even give me a quote for our boat because of its age. 1969.

I ended up using Progressive and it was easy and fairly priced. Got an instant quote online.

because of the age of the boat, i got liability only plus a small 'stated value' policy. that works well for me.
 
#5 · (Edited)
As far as an expensive inspection goes, yes you will need a marine survey. Basically, their are two kinds of survey, a basic insurance survey and a more intensive pre-purchase survey. An insurance survey will probably run in the $12-17 per foot range, with a pre-purchase survey in the $16-25 per foot range. Most Sailnetters will strongly suggest you get a full pre-purchase survey. It just might save you thousands of dollars finding hidden problems that will have to be fixed.

I'm on my fourth boat, all insured with Boat US.

In reading some of your old posts, didn't you buy a Cascade 29 a few years ago you were going to cross the ocean with? What happened with that one?
 
#6 ·
My insurance provider only requires a marine survey on boats insured for $25,000 or more. Most people who buy a boat at that value will have already had a pre-purchase survey that is considered acceptable. Check with your provider.

Insurance is pretty cheap as far as boat things go. I think I paid about $200/year to insure my Catalina 25 for $10k replacement value and $300k liability (the minimum that marinas generally want).
 
#7 ·
I use a good local agent who shops around for all my insurance. So far I have never been able to beat the prices by calling the big companies myself. I give her all my business and she often calls me first with better prices if my rates go up.

I have to admit that I have never heard of some of the companies, but, I have had claims in the past and never a problem (so far). Plus, she gets involved with the process. (She could be selling hundreds of policies to a company and maybe they respond better?)

Anyway, same agent for 20 years. So far so good.
 
#8 ·
This is absolutely the way to go, IMO. The agents have much more leverage with the carriers than you could ever have. The carriers have to compete to get the agents to send them business. The agents know the differences in coverage and responsiveness and can help you make a good decision. Least expensive is not always the most effective. Quite the opposite usually.

A good knowledgeable independent agent that works hard is worth it.
 
#11 ·
I simply filed online with BoatUS and they sent me a quote/policy. All I have to do is sign it and send a check.
No comprehensive, 'cept for like 500 in pers belongings and the rest in liability... near 900K in oil/hazardous cleanup, tho!
 
#14 ·
I just recently insured my boat for "Agreed Value" through BoatUS

When applying for the insurance, I listed the actual price I paid for the boat, but asked to insure it for quite a bit more.
They came back, questioning why the delta. I explained that the boat was in pretty bad state when I bought it and that I spent quite a lot of money getting it in the current shape (boat physics...black holes..:laugher)

They said Great, no problem, but please send us the yard bills.

Well, I don't have yard bills, as I did all the work myself.

Here it became a little more tough - They explained that they will except receipts for all the replaced / new equipment I've added, but that labor can not be included - I guess my own labor have zero value....:(

Well, and here's a lesson for all that work on their own boats - I didnt keep most of the receipts.
I documented in my boat log anything I bought for the boat, but only in my own writing.

They were not happy with this and at first kind of said - Sorry we cant help...

I ended up documenting via photos everything I did on the boat - luckily I did take tons of pictures and videos as the work progressed.

Submitting the photos combined with the list of equipment I bought (with prices), they finally accepted the stated value, and proceeded with issueing the insurance.

Although it was a little bit of an effort (due to my own mistake by not keeping receipts), they generally were good working with, and their quote was quite a bit lower than everyone else I tried.
 
#15 ·
I've always used Progressive because they've been affordable (multiple policy discount for auto too) and easy to work with. However, I've also heard good things about BoatUS and a few other specialty companies. You can find more info and links to several companies offering boat insurance at InsuranceForBoats.org.

Should be plenty of good anecdotal stories available about good and bad boat insurance in the wake of hurricane Sandy.
 
#16 ·
I own a 1979 AMF Paceship PY26 and I live in Jacksonville, FL. I just received a quote from my Geico lady who shopped around my policy to a bunch of marine affiliates and received a quote of 168.93 for the entire year.
However, I got this quote on a Friday this past. There was a stipulation regarding the policy that stated I needed an 'out-of-water survey' to be completed before I could get it. Well, I only spent $2900 on the boat and never got a survey done but since I had practically rebuilt the thing and documented it on photobucket and with marina invoices the Geico lady thought I had a good shot at them allowing me to complete a 'self-seurvey form.' Anyway, since it was Friday early afternoon when I called I did not get a reply back from the marine insurance people regarding the survey hindered so I am waiting right now for a call back today to find out the results-- So just expect the policy to be relatively cheap for a bare minimum liability and pollution and uninsured boaters whatnot but also expect any insurance agent to want a survey to be done on your boat or that HAD BEEN DONE IN THE PAST 30 DAYS***
So, I would think you would be looking at under $200.00 plus the cost of survey unless you can get them to let you do a self-survey instead. I will let you know my results.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Be very careful with Geico. They are reputed to reduce coverage in ways the average consumer doesn't understand, in order to reduce rates. You see the same limit as the next guy, but your's may not apply to all the same events as theirs. (Have you ever seen the Mayhem commercials that say "your cut rate insurance may not cover this"? That's what they are trying to say, without naming Geico directly) You learn when you have a denied claim after paying all that money.

Cheap insurance is almost always cheap for a reason. I always recommend using and agent/broker that has access to several different insurance companies and can explain the differences in coverage so you can make an informed decision. All cruising grounds will have someone experienced in marine insurance.
 
#19 ·
I already posted earlier in this thread on how State Farm handles the survey. My agent requires a survey if the agreed upon value is over $25k, does not require a survey if it is lower. I don't think that length comes into that equation, only boat value, but I didn't ask specifically.

There have been other threads where there were concerns over what State Farm covered on boat insurance. I can only say that I've read my contract and feel like I'm pretty well covered, everyone should do this for their own boats and coverage.

I used State Farm because they also cover my house and car and they gave me the best rate as a result.
 
#20 ·
The insurance companies ALL play cute with policy exclusions. If they were being honest, they would allow you to read the entire policy before you made any committment, so you could see the exclusions and limits. Instead, they pretty much all require you to take a policy and then read it afterwards. Which means you would have to pay, read it after it comes, cancel, find something else, repeat, while waiting for the refund from the first guy...
IOW they lock you in before you can see what is being omitted.

A good insurance broker will know which ones exclude what, and can guide you past that. If their quote sounds high, there is often a reason for it and they'll have no problem telling you what you've missed.

Some of the "auto" carriers don't have marine claim surveyors, so if your boat is damaged some auto guy is going to look at it, never suspecting that a grounding can mean the entire rudder is also shot, or how a t-bone impact can break lose bulkhead tabbing all the way through a boat, bow to stern.

It isn't just what they omit or exclude, and a good broker should have no problem discussing options and insurer performance.
 
#23 ·
Law of physics. A $5k boat can cost more than what you paid to make her sailable and a pro can tell you what you should focus on, if you want her anyway.

I assume a marina only wants liability, I doubt they care about you recovering anything. Again, while I suspect they will take any proof of insurance you supply, you may not be cover and still liable. Get a good agent/broker.
 
#24 ·
It's just always seemed to me that it's one of those services that since people either have to get it to get insurance, or are spending alot on a boat and are nervous, that the surveyor can charge a price that is out of line with the service provided. It's not in line with other costs in this world.

A survey out of the water I think costs $1000, in water 200-500. That's completely rediculous. Mechanics don't charge that much to work on your car. I just got towed in a blizzard in Wyoming, and for the guy to come in a blizzard out in the middle of nowhere and take me to town at night it cost $150. A long haul truck driver gets $500 to go to Dallas TX at midnight, spend 2 hours getting loaded, then spend the next four days of his life, dodging police, weather, accidents, and then fight traffic in L.A. to spend 2 more hours delivering for $500.

So how does some guy charge $500 to come poke at a boat? Not happening. It's worth $100.
 
#27 ·
So how does some guy charge $500 to come poke at a boat? Not happening. It's worth $100.
Obviously, you have never followed a good surveyor while he did his job. If you had, you would see the hours he puts in and the training and years of experience it took for him to do his job. Then you would know, he is definitely worth a lot more than $100.
And you want to sail around in a $5000 clunker that hasn't even been hauled to check the condition of the bottom, let alone get surveyed.
Good luck!
 
#26 ·
So you want to spend 5k on a boat that you will sail across oceans (your previous post) but you don't want to pay for a survey or even get it hauled to look at the bottom.
PS ... the bottom is the part that holds the rest of it up.

You obviously know exactly what you are doing and I wish you good luck.
 
#28 ·
My Pearson survey was more like $550, including haul out. The price was pretty evenly split between the haul out and the surveyor.

I self surveyed my Catalina, but the Pearson is a much more complex boat and I wanted someone else to check it. What was found in the survey paid for survey in negotiation. Self-surveying can work well (though it is meaningless to insurance) as long as you are open to walking away when you find problems. If you are emotional about it then it isn't a survey.

I didn't haul the Catalina, but wish I had. Everything worked out fine (I recently saw the bottom because a friend owns that boat now), but it would have given me a lot of peace of mind to have seen it hauled. What I found in the self-survey knocked about $1000 off of the Catalina price.

In both cases more was found after words, that's just boats.
 
#29 ·
"So how does some guy charge $500 to come poke at a boat? Not happening. It's worth $100. "
Sounds like you've always been an employee and never self-employed.

Let's say the surveyor takes two hours on your boat, and spends another two hours in travel time, coming and going. So you want to pay them $100, which breaks out to $25/hour for the job.

Except, someone who is self-employed and running a business actually nets only about 1/3 of their billable rate, after accounting for vacation time, pension, sick time, and both halves of the social security (FICA) taxes. Someone who is real good at it, might net half of their billing rate.

And you're going to pay them a whopping net $12 per hour then, and expect them to eat the costs of gas and car mileage as part of that? Hell, they can make more than that supervising the fryer at any burger joint.

You won't find a plumber or an appliance repairman to come make a housecall for $100, why should a surveyor charge less?

Some boaters can do better for themselves than what some alleged surveyors would do, sure. And if you buy a $5000 boat that has a couple of surprises, and you sink in another three or four thousand (don't forget the rent on the ground or slip under it while you're working) and then you first find out, it can't be fixed or other folks don't want to buy it and the landfill won't take it because it is classed as hazmat, ka-ching go to the hazmat disposal site...

You might decide the surveyor, like those other guys, wasn't totally unreasonable after all.

But either way, someone needs to get some face time UNDER the boat, to see if there are problems with the keel or rudder. And with the rudder, if there is even a hairline crack in the paint, that can mean water intrusion and armature failure to come. So you really want to take a close look, hauled or not hauled.
 
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