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  #11  
Old 03-13-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

Derogatory? The facts are simple, it is a war prize, nothing more and nothing less.

The US forcibly took possession of PR from Spain in the Spanish American war. That Spain had "discovered" "conquered" "subjugated" or whatever you want to call it previously, has no bearing on the fact that the US took possession of PR as a prize of war.

Now, as to whether the continuing status as an insular possession is derogatory...I can't tell you. If anyone in PR feels defamed by that status, they can get up and vote for Statehood and take all that brings. But apparently a majority of Puertoricanos feel that it is to their advantage to be less than a State. Or, someone keeps casting the votes that way.

Meanwhile, it remains a war prize, and the concepts of independence and freedom, however illusory, don't seem to be the ones valued most there. Go for statehood. Go for nationhood and independence. But, to stay in limbo as a war prize?

That's a concious choice, by the folks who live there.

Chicago, DC, and N'Orleans oughtn't to be lumped into the same bucket as each other, fwiw. DC has a truly unique status, of being a city without a state. Three towns, each with some unique attributes.
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Derogatory? The facts are simple, it is a war prize, nothing more and nothing less.

The US forcibly took possession of PR from Spain in the Spanish American war. That Spain had "discovered" "conquered" "subjugated" or whatever you want to call it previously, has no bearing on the fact that the US took possession of PR as a prize of war.

Now, as to whether the continuing status as an insular possession is derogatory...I can't tell you. If anyone in PR feels defamed by that status, they can get up and vote for Statehood and take all that brings. But apparently a majority of Puertoricanos feel that it is to their advantage to be less than a State. Or, someone keeps casting the votes that way.

Meanwhile, it remains a war prize, and the concepts of independence and freedom, however illusory, don't seem to be the ones valued most there. Go for statehood. Go for nationhood and independence. But, to stay in limbo as a war prize?

That's a concious choice, by the folks who live there.

Chicago, DC, and N'Orleans oughtn't to be lumped into the same bucket as each other, fwiw. DC has a truly unique status, of being a city without a state. Three towns, each with some unique attributes.
As a born Puerto Rican from my island I think I'm fairly more educated about Puerto Rico than you are... have you ever visited Puerto Rico? I bet not but somehow you've become the defacto expert on Puerto Rico and it's politics and why in Congress they have not voted Puerto Rico to become the 51st State... there are many good reasons why too and as I mentioned this is not for this forum but you might want to ask the Hawaiians and native Alaskans how well they're doing after most of their land and homelands are now gone to other people not of the native population or why somehow their native language has strangely gone away except for the native population that still converses among themselves ... maybe that is the reason Piuerto Rico has made the official language Spanish although the U.S. government language used in U.S. government business is English... maybe Native Hawaiians/Alaskans wished they'd thought of that too in hindsight!

Funny that we Puerto Ricans were also U.S. Citizens since April of 1899 while many calling us half asses came to this country on boatloads into Ellis Island back in 1910 and later without a dime in their pockets as well... at least I and many others can lay claim to being in Puerto Rico or Porto Rico as it was before the 'war prize (sic)' since the 1700's...
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

"calling us half asses "
No one called anyone half an ass, except you yourself taking umbrage where none was.

I said the situation in PR was half-assed. Why you choose to remain in limbo as neither a state nor a nation, why you choose to remain a war prize, is your own business.

But the fact remains, Puerto Rico has had many years in which to change that and has chosen to remain an insular possession. I come from one of the many sovereign states that were in fact sovereign states before there was an "American" nation. We take matters of self control and sovereignty almost as seriously as Jefferson Davis did, and we don't all agree that Lincoln was right about The Union being inviolate.

You want to be a subject with limited control over your own rights and future? OK, that's your choice. And no matter how you do or don't like it, you still live in a war prize, an insular possession, a political convenience that can literally be cut up, bought and sold, at the discretion of the owners. Who may be benevolent right now--but they still own you. Chosing to remain the possession of someone else? That's slave mentality. And, not incidentally, foreign to the traditional American way of thinking.

So whether it is financially advantageous or not, you're not in control of your own future. You're in less control of it than any state or nation would be, because you're owned.
And just to be clear, that's not you personally, that's "you" the island of Puerto Rico.

So many little bits of the UK were so proud to gain their statehood. PR? Go figure. Sweet deal.
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Old 03-13-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

[QUOTE=hellosailor;1002228]Derogatory? Yes, look it up if you don't understand the definition. The facts are simple, it is a war prize, nothing more and nothing less. Who is disputing it's history?

The US forcibly took possession of PR from Spain in the Spanish American war. That Spain had "discovered" "conquered" "subjugated" or whatever you want to call it previously, has no bearing on the fact that the US took possession of PR as a prize of war.

Now, as to whether the continuing status as an insular possession is derogatory...I can't tell you. If anyone in PR feels defamed by that status, they can get up and vote for Statehood and take all that brings.And possibly all that it takes away too. Do try to be fair. But apparently a majority of Puertoricanos feel that it is to their advantage to be less than a State. Or, someone keeps casting the votes that way. Yes, democracy is a beautiful thing. Can we at least agree on that?

Meanwhile, it remains a war prize, and the concepts of independence and freedom, however illusory, don't seem to be the ones valued most there. Go for statehood. Go for nationhood and independence. But, to stay in limbo as a war prize? If that's what the majority wants, yes. If you don't like it, maybe you should move there and register to vote.

That's a concious choice, by the folks who live there.By goodness, I think you are getting it.

Chicago, DC, and N'Orleans oughtn't to be lumped into the same bucket as each other, fwiw.Sarcasm, I'm purposely picking on entire populations because some in power appear to be corrupt. Do you recognize the irony? Taken further, the residents of Illinois are half-assed because they refuse to vote out corrupt politicians who limit their 2nd amendment freedoms. That is their choice to live under such tyranny and continue to make the same choices at the ballot box. They are clearly not free but think they are because they refuse to make a change, like get on a plane and fly to another state. Wait....PRs can do the same thing. DC has a truly unique status, of being a city without a state.Yes, that's why I chose it. Three towns, each with some unique attributes.[/QUOTE

I apologize to any residents of the great state of Illinois for using it as an example.

Swing away and get the last shot in. This is Sailnet and not SA, right? I'm done drifting this thread any further from the original concept of clearing in and clearing out. I could sure use some pinchos about now!!!!

Last edited by FarCry; 03-13-2013 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 03-13-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

Oh happy days. This argument brings back many happy memories of my time in PR from 1999 to 2003 and a short time in 2005. I will stay out of this little discussion as I don't have a decent rum in my hand.

Unless the situation has changed, on arriving from the USVI's the best check in was in Culebra. Anchor your boat, dinghy ashore, walk to the airport where they were friendly and efficient, walk back have breakfast/lunch/start drinking. Job done.

The reason for the check in was, as stated, the USVI's are Duty free, PR is not.
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Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

Gents & Ladies, First, I freely admit that I haven't read all of the "replies" in this thread, but thought that perhaps, as an ex-commuter airline pilot from my youth (a long time ago), based in and flying from Puerto Rico for 12 years, that I could bring a little clarity to this situation. The USVI's are certainly US territory and entrants are required to clear both Immigration and Customs upon arrival, unless one is a through passenger to Puerto Rico or to the mainland. Because the USVI's are a "Tax Free Zone" as far as Customs is concerned, individuals are required to clear Customs, but not Immigration upon arrival into the "taxable" US (Puerto Rico included) upon arrival there. This includes arrivals into the Spanish Virgins as they are Puerto Rican territory. Hope this helps to clarify the issue! Cheers to all!
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

"Yes, democracy is a beautiful thing. Can we at least agree on that?"
Sure. Although I'd suggest democracy MAY be a beautiful thing. They don't have a very long track record, compared to other societies.

" If you don't like it, maybe you should move there and register to vote."
Why would I need to move there, when I can just ask my Congressman to turn it into a parking lot and forest preserve? Or industrial zone? Or maybe, give the USN back their bombing range with an extra couple of acres? I already can vote for the future of PR, remember, "we the people" own it. We could simply "liberate" it, declare independence, or trade it to someone else. You know, like we bought the Alaskan territories.

"I'm purposely picking on entire populations because some in power appear to be corrupt."
No, your irony was so subtle as to be invisible. Are you trying to say the PR is like Chicago then? A world-class mob political machine, which the inhabitants prefer to keep running?
"They are clearly not free but think they are..."
See, that's the problem with a democracy. You can't just install one and expect it to work. And even the Founding Fathers never intended everyone to vote, their concept of democracy gave the vote to about 20% of the citizens. The criteria may seem poor, but given the times, it probably gave the vote to the best informed and committed slice of the public.

And fwiw, no, I don't endorse the Chicago mob, or the way N'Orleans cons its voters. But fi they want tribalism, hey, for some folks that works too. Why vote for a stranger when you can vote for a friend, or uncle? That works for a lot of the world. Why worry about building codes, when you can slip someone a c-note and get certified? Until the next big storm or flood comes along, anyway.

Tip O'Neil made some good points about old fashioned politics and vote buying in his book, there's a lot to be said for that way of doing things.
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Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

And this used to be an informative, sailing related thread.
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtod25 View Post
Oh happy days. This argument brings back many happy memories of my time in PR from 1999 to 2003 and a short time in 2005. I will stay out of this little discussion as I don't have a decent rum in my hand.

Unless the situation has changed, on arriving from the USVI's the best check in was in Culebra. Anchor your boat, dinghy ashore, walk to the airport where they were friendly and efficient, walk back have breakfast/lunch/start drinking. Job done.

The reason for the check in was, as stated, the USVI's are Duty free, PR is not.
That is still an option. Assuming all on board have US passports (and Canadian I believe) the Capt can make a toll free phone call and clear in from the comfort of the cockpit which is even easier. Just make sure the vessel has a current DTOPS sticker. If there is an issue, they may still request you present yourself in person. I rarely hear of that happening.
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Old 03-15-2013
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Re: Arriving to Puerto Rico from USVI read this!!!

This dead horse is taking quite a beating. We can all agree the rum is awesome and that Chi Chi is one hell of a great golfer and gentleman
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