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  #41  
Old 05-05-2013
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Re: Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
My take on a cruiser, is one that lives permanently on their boat and has no fixed place of abode. Has no ties to an area where they are presently staying. Can move on without undue stress. Probably don't own a car or mode of transport that can not be easily bought aboard. At a minimum they can say yes to most of the former for 3 continual months or more.
Then the hugely majority of cruising boats are a waste because they are not used by cruisers

So a sailor that cruises regularly each year on new cruising grounds is not a cruiser because does not live permanently on a boat?

It seems that for you a cruiser has to be a professional???, or a retired or a bummer because nobody with a a fixed work, other than cruising could qualify as a cruiser.

Regards

Paulo
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  #42  
Old 05-05-2013
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Re: Cruiser

I'm definitely not in agreement with many of you here.

Exhibit A

Dylan Winter (Keep Turning Left)
Dylan is a longtime contributer here who is on a five year (at best) circumnavigation of the UK in a 20' boat. He is a freelance journalist and filmaker who regulalry leaves his boat and returns to the family home for work, puppy births and the odd bit of jiggery pokery. OK so some of you disagree but ffs, this man is cruising.

Exhibit B
A.J. Mackinnon - "The Unlikely Voyage of Jack de Crow".
The Unlikely Voyage Of Jack De Crow - Book Reviews - Books - Entertainment
Slept most nights either under canvas on land, on various friends and acquaintances sofas or in a pub.
Cruising ? Damn right he was.

Andrew B
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  #43  
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Re: Cruiser

I'm with tdw. Cruising is a state of mind. When we were were kids we get together and jump on bikes, in a car, walk whatever and go cruising. Never really knew where you end up or how the night would work out. Now you may go "cruise Maine". Don't know how far north you may get, what harbors you will visit. ( vacation cruiser) Or you cruise the caribean or the Med or south Pacific. (full time cruiser). It's the state of mind. Open to what opportunities present themselves. Not be pressured and live in the moment. Yes, it's enjoyable to sail a fast boat well. But that has nothing o do with whether or not you are cruising. Done the same trip several times. Sometimes helping on delieveries. Other times while cruising. Very different frame on mind. Think you can cruise for a weekend, a few weeks or your life. Don't think time, boat, or locale limit yu from feeling the joy of just going cruising. Agree with Bob, once you get competitive about it you missed the boat on cruising.
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  #44  
Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
My take on a cruiser, is one that lives permanently on their boat and has no fixed place of abode. Has no ties to an area where they are presently staying. Can move on without undue stress. Probably don't own a car or mode of transport that can not be easily bought aboard. At a minimum they can say yes to most of the former for 3 continual months or more.
That is pretty much how I define a cruiser too.

Brian
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  #45  
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Re: Cruiser

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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
That is pretty much how I define a cruiser too.

Brian
Brian are you a professional cruiser? I mean like Paul and Sheryl Shard or do you manage to keep another type of work while cruising? And how is that possible? You seam too young to be retired. How do you earn the money to keep cruising all the time?

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Cruiser

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Then the hugely majority of cruising boats are a waste because they are not used by cruisers

So a sailor that cruises regularly each year on new cruising grounds is not a cruiser because does not live permanently on a boat?

It seems that for you a cruiser has to be a professional???, or a retired or a bummer because nobody with a a fixed work, other than cruising could qualify as a cruiser.

Regards

Paulo
You see, this is why we are not agreeing in the Racer-cruiser thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Then the hugely majority of cruising boats are a waste because they are not used by cruisers
Why? Why is that bad? Why do you have to be a cruiser to enjoy a 'cruising' boat? Why can't the guy that just goes for a sail on his boat for a day, or even one that never leaves the dock, be happy and use his boat in the manner that he feels is right for him? I personally have no problem with that. You do not have to be a cruiser to enjoy a cruising boat and use it for the use you feel is right for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
So a sailor that cruises regularly each year on new cruising grounds is not a cruiser because does not live permanently on a boat?
Exactly. He can be cruising (or vacationing), but not be a cruiser. There is a distinct difference to me, which I will explain shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It seems that for you a cruiser has to be a professional???, or a retired or a bummer because nobody with a a fixed work, other than cruising could qualify as a cruiser.
A professional is one who seems to make money off of their endeavor to me. I sure don't make money as a cruiser... I spend it!!!

So, using that reasoning, if I draw up a plan to build a barn, am I an architect?

If I put a bandaid on my kids knee, or if I try to diagnose their illness and administer drugs, does that make me a nurse or a doctor?

If I fix up a creative meal for the church, and serve it up, does that make me a chef?

If I put a saddle on a jackass, and run him around the track, does that make him a racehorse?

Then why in the world is the guy that tosses a six pack of beer in a boat, grabs a pizza, and heads out to anchor out for the day a cruiser???

Call them what they are: They are sailors. They are people who are going to anchor out or hop marinas. THey are using their boats as they see fit and enjoying them. They are choosing to spend their vacation anchoring out on their boat and relaxing and enjoying life. And you want to know what is wrong with that?? Not a single thing. I have done all of that. The differences between what I do though, day in and day out, and what a guy on a Hobie cat that spends the night on a shore before heading back to his house does, are so significantly different I do not even know how to begin, but let me see if I can try:

I have an address on my drivers license that lists a marina which I have not seen in months, and will probably never see again. I have no dock box there, I have no slip or dock lines tied or storage of goods. I have no (read: zero) land ties anywhere in the world.

I pulled my children out and home school them fulltime.

I dropped a box in front of my kids and told them they were going to have to consolidate their toys to what fit in that small box because that is all that would fit on the boat. They had to make hard decisions, because they knew what didn't fit would be thrown away or taken to Goodwill.

I carry a full complement of drugs and medical supplies, because as I have seen, we can be many, many hours or days from help.

I carry a suit on board and nice dresses for the wife. This is because if there is a funeral or other function that requires us to be appropriately dressed, we will not have time to get them out of storage.

Everything I own that does not float is in a 10x15 3000 miles away which I have not seen in quite a long time, and honestly, I am not even sure what is in there.

We carry the bibles from our kids first communion, pictures that cannot be replaced, financials and all of our checkbooks, birth certificates, and other things you and any other non-cruiser would never put on their boat.

If my boat sinks, I didn't just lose my boat. I didn't just lose my house. I lost my home. I lost everything, much of which is irreplaceable and does not carry a monetary tag. But we carry it anyways, because it is not our boat, it is our home, our only home, and those things are precious to us.

I carry a full complement of cold weather clothes and blankets, even though it is summer. Why? Because I will still be on this boat in winter and I was on it last winter, and if they don't float, they don't go.

I carry the stuff to change the oil and wax the boat, even though I did all of this only a few months ago. Why? Because where else would I put it? And in a few months, when I have to change the oil, I will need it or will have to repurchase.

Losing my tender would not be just a source of irritation or a financial loss, it is a serious issue because now we will not be able to restock the boat, refill with water, refill with diesel, get back and forth to land to reprovision the food, (take out the dog in my situation), and other things that adds a whole other level of stress to us. I will have to repurchase, and quickly. In the meantime, I will have to find a marina which may not be easily or readily accessible. Our tender is not a fun little boat, it is our car.

A cruiser for me is not a state of mind. It is not a badge of honor. It is not a trophy. It is not a pennant I fly from my stay. A cruiser is a fulltime commitment to this lifestyle and to cruising. It is making life work in your home, your only home, which just so happens to float.

From my perspective, when you call everyone a cruiser, then no one is. The word loses all meaning. That is also the problem with labels and describing them. But in reflecting back on what seems the general consensus of "this is a cruiser" and how you and others have defined it, I begin to think I am not a cruiser at all. I do not know what words describe the life I live. Probably not a 'cruiser'. No. Me and my family are not cruisers. We are gypsies... water gypsies who are passionate about sailing and cruising.

Come join us... you wont regret it.

Brian
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  #47  
Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Brian are you a professional cruiser? I mean like Paul and Sheryl Shard or do you manage to keep another type of work while cruising? And how is that possible? You seam too young to be retired. How do you earn the money to keep cruising all the time?

Regards

Paulo
Yes, I am, in your version of a professional which is not what I call it. I call it a cruiser. And I am no professional!! More like an amateur (Smile).

I would not call myself retired. I am not. Who knows, this whole thing could come to an end with one nice hurricane. How did I do it? I worked very long hours in my company. I earned a lot of money and saved it. I shut it down instead of continuing to make money and walked away from a very large sum of money (at least in my opinion). I now write books, which I make nothing on (right now, at least... fingers crossed I will pick up an agent with my last book).

I sold my house(s).

I sold my car(s).

I took my stuff and what didn't fit into a 10x15 storage unit, I threw away.

I liquidated everything I own that didn't float or wouldn't float on the boat.

You see, that has long been my argument that when people say, "You are so lucky, Brian, I wish I could do that." Almost everyone can!! There are those that cannot, but in reality, they are few. How?

You quit your job or you shut down your company. Walk away from it. SOme can do it in a fashion that allows them to come back to it one day if they wish. Others never want to or cannot. It's hard... I won't lie!

Sell your house. Owning a house and a boat (did that, even bought a house once off the ICW to park my boat behind) is like having two wives. You won't be happy with either because you cannot be everything to both. That was my experience at least. But sell it! Take the money and put it in savings.

Sell your cars. They are a depreciating asset anyways and you won't want them or need them.

Sell your possessions. Have a yard sale or estate sell and sell everything that is not precious to you. The things that are precious, put in storage. The things that are not and don't sell, drop off at Goodwill.

If that is not enough money, liquidate your retirement. You will take a hit on it (25% in America).

Pull your kids out of school and learn and research homeschooling.

Buy a boat that fits your needs. Understand, it is no longer a boat, it is now your house and home. It is your life and will keep you safe. You will suddenly find that you need something that holds, "all that stuff" because if it doesn't fit on the boat, it can't go, and you will find that both you and your family have things that they need to make them happy long term. You will have things that are precious to you and you will not want to leave behind.

After that, cut the lines. Sail away. Go somewhere for the day or a month. You are only limited by your finances and interests. If money starts getting tight, go somewhere and get a short term job to help resupply the cruising kitty. That is a cruiser to me.

Now, most people that read this think I am crazy or anyone that does that is crazy. they cannot imagine shutting down their profession... they may never get it back. They love their house(s). They have zero interest in home schooling their kids or do not think they should because their kids have friends or their kids are doing well in school and sports. They cannot imagine life without a car. Their furniture are heirlooms and not replaceable. Touch their retirement?? Are you kidding me!?? Stupid, insane, financially reckless.

So in the end, they do not do this life because they cannot, they do not do it because they value the things I mentioned above more than being a cruiser. And you want to know what is wrong with that? NOT A SINGLE THING. Nothing. In fact, most people have fallen into the category I put above. They did not want to make those kinds of life-changing repercussions. That is why the average cruising age out here is people well into their 60s.

But looking back, remember that most of you CAN do it. Whether you chose to or not is up to you and your family. For some it is worth it. For others it is not. And both choices are right. Like I said, there are no banners here for doing this. There are no awards, no trophies, and no pennants. There are only memories.

Brian
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  #48  
Old 05-06-2013
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Re: Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post

Why? Why is that bad? Why do you have to be a cruiser to enjoy a 'cruising' boat? Why can't the guy that just goes for a sail on his boat for a day, or even one that never leaves the dock, be happy and use his boat in the manner that he feels is right for him? I personally have no problem with that. You do not have to be a cruiser to enjoy a cruising boat and use it for the use you feel is right for you.
Cruising boats are designed for cruising and a lot has been compromised in what regards performance as a sailboat and the pleasure to sail it. If the boat is not used for cruising but for daysailing or racing than a less compromised and much more pleasing boat to sail would be much more appropriated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post

...
From my perspective, when you call everyone a cruiser, then no one is. The word loses all meaning. That is also the problem with labels and describing them. But in reflecting back on what seems the general consensus of "this is a cruiser" and how you and others have defined it, I begin to think I am not a cruiser at all. I do not know what words describe the life I live. Probably not a 'cruiser'. No. Me and my family are not cruisers. We are gypsies... water gypsies who are passionate about sailing and cruising.

Come join us... you wont regret it.
I don't call everybody a cruiser and that thing of a state of mind to define a cruiser seems bull to me. I call a cruiser to the ones that cruise regularly and like to cruise, at least while they cruise.

Some have more time out of work to do it, some less but if they cruise every year when they can....they are cruisers.

There are live aboards (many) that never cruise and even you are only cruising a small part of your time in the boat. In winter or with bad weather I bet you stay put for a considerable amount of time in one place. That is not cruising, cruising implies to move around frequently. When I cruise very rarely I pass the night on the same anchorage and almost each day I pass between 4 and 8 hours sailing. When I do more than that, I am not cruising anymore but voyaging and voyaging happens sometimes in the middle of a cruise.

Nobody cruises all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
After that, cut the lines. Sail away. Go somewhere for the day or a month. You are only limited by your finances and interests. If money starts getting tight, go somewhere and get a short term job to help resupply the cruising kitty. That is a cruiser to me.

Now, most people that read this think I am crazy or anyone that does that is crazy. they cannot imagine shutting down their profession... they may never get it back. They love their house(s). They have zero interest in home schooling their kids or do not think they should because their kids have friends or their kids are doing well in school and sports. They cannot imagine life without a car. Their furniture are heirlooms and not replaceable. Touch their retirement?? Are you kidding me!?? Stupid, insane, financially reckless.

So in the end, they do not do this life because they cannot, they do not do it because they value the things I mentioned above more than being a cruiser. And you want to know what is wrong with that? NOT A SINGLE THING. Nothing. In fact, most people have fallen into the category I put above. They did not want to make those kinds of life-changing repercussions. That is why the average cruising age out here is people well into their 60s.
Many could not pay a cruising life without working and would only be able to live in a boat having a gypsy life when they retire. But even if I could I doubt that I would. The children need stability and soon they will need a high school and a University. Stability, friends and socialization are important for them.

Even now that I can I don't want it, I mean living full time in a boat. I don't want to pass the winter on a boat. I want to have a part of the year for the family and friends. I don't only to cruise on the boat. I like very much to cruise on my roadster. This winter was really a bad one and the spring come late and I missed cruising on the car. Hell, I don't like only sailing, I love to drive my sports car.

The point is that many people even if they could would not choose to live on a boat...even if they cruise a lot of time, on a boat, motorcycle or car. That is not only in what regards boats that I like variety. Regarding life too.

I am happy you and your family are enjoying living without a fixed address. I like to do that sometimes, not all the times and I bet that I am not the only one.

That means I am not a cruiser? I have made probably 200 000 kms cruising on a motorcycle and a car and probably 30 or 40 000Nm doing that on a sailboat, if that does not qualify me as a cruiser....well then I have cruised a lot without being a cruiser

Regards

Paulo
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  #49  
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Re: Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Cruising boats are designed for cruising and a lot has been compromised in what regards performance as a sailboat and the pleasure to sail it. If the boat is not used for cruising but for daysailing or racing than a less compromised and much more pleasing boat to sail would be much more appropriated.



I don't call everybody a cruiser and that thing of a state of mind to define a cruiser seems bull to me. I call a cruiser to the ones that cruise regularly and like to cruise, at least while they cruise.

Some have more time out of work to do it, some less but if they cruise every year when they can....they are cruisers.

There are live aboards (many) that never cruise and even you are only cruising a small part of your time in the boat. In winter or with bad weather I bet you stay put for a considerable amount of time in one place. That is not cruising, cruising implies to move around frequently. When I cruise very rarely I pass the night on the same anchorage and almost each day I pass between 4 and 8 hours sailing. When I do more than that, I am not cruising anymore but voyaging and voyaging happens sometimes in the middle of a cruise.

Nobody cruises all the time.



Many could not pay a cruising life without working and would only be able to live in a boat having a gypsy life when they retire. But even if I could I doubt that I would. The children need stability and soon they will need a high school and a University. stability, friends and socialization is important for them.

Even now that I can I don't want. I don't want to pass the winter on a boat. I want to have a part of the year for the family and friends. I don't only to cruise on the boat. I like very much to cruise on my roadster. This winter was really a bad one and the spring come late and I missed cruising on the car. Hell, I don't like only sailing, I love to drive my sports car.

The point is that many people even if they could would not choose to live on a boat...even if they cruise a lot of time, on a boat, motorcycle or car. That is not only in what regards boats that I like variety. Regarding life too.

I am happy you and your family are enjoying living without a fixed address. I like to do that sometimes, not all the times and I bet that I am not the only one.

That means I am not a cruiser? I have made probably 200 000 kms cruising on a motorcycle and a car and probably 30 or 40 000Nm doing that on a sailboat, if that does not qualify me as a cruiser....well then I have cruised a lot without being a cruiser

Regards

Paulo
And you know what's wrong with the way you use your boat Paulo and how you will use it? Not a single thing, my friend.

But understand, my kids were on board at 5 days old. I sold my house and moved aboard in 2000-2001. My kids have known little else than boating. Sometimes that was FT cruising, sometimes living aboard, and sometimes vacationing/sabbatical/long weekends. I don't keep track of miles anymore. I stay as long as I want. I move when I want. Nothing to prove.

In fact, it is winter that it the best weather here and we often move the most or anchor out the most!! Highs in the 70's, low in the 60's. It is the summer that is a killer (highs in the 90s, lows in the 80s or maybe high 70s). That is why I want to go up the east coast this year perhaps and cool off!

The trick for the kids is finding other kid boats. We are with two right now. In fact, as I write this, they are out playing baseball together! They are all cruisers and cruising kids, all home schooled. My life is not unique.

Some of our differences in opinion are also cultural, Paulo. The literal use of the word 'cruiser' is different here I think than maybe how it is literally translated in Europe. And I have never heard anyone called a voyager, and I have done this since 1995. You are the first person to use that word to me. THat is another reason I think we see things differently.

But what matters is that we are both using our boats as we see fit, and are happy with them. I cruise very differently than you do, which maybe explains to you why we are so far apart on the racer-cruiser thread. My definitions are different. Not better or worse, but different.

Take care - off to watch the kids play ball, then to the boat and get supper ready, then a beer, the grill (I am having fresh wahoo tonight... straight off the boat)!!, then the sunset.

Brian
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Re: Cruiser

Brian- You sir are a cruiser. G-d bless you and all who sail with you. I may go cruising and hope shortly to be a cruiser but you are a cruiser by anyone's definition.
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