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Cruising and Sailing with Children All things sailing and kids related, from safety to life aboard.


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  #21  
Old 02-21-2014
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post

Look at the conditions.
Anybody still feel that a) CPS swooped in unnecessarily wiht no warning and b) the parents were actually doing their damn job as parents?
Of course the authorities acted necessarily, as far as we know the facts to be facts.
Its the same in every western country. They either act too soon, too late, at all or never. They are damned in much that they do.


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  #22  
Old 02-21-2014
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

I'm not sure if I should cross-post this, but here's what I said over in the original thread:

Come on Pearson796, I don't appreciate some of the broad stokes being applied here (and have said so). And I too pointed out that the various damning accusations could easily apply to many small cruising boats. That said, I think you've left the rails. This is not about you.

Yes, there are valid concerns about how state power is used to hammer any square pegs that don't fit into the prescribed round holes of our society. We see shades of this all the time here, in complaints about restricted anchoring to unfair application of residency laws. That said, the state does need to intervene in cases of neglect and abuse, especially of children. This appears to be one of those cases. It will be interesting to follow the outcome (although the "news" media almost never follows up on this sort of stuff -- not sensational enough).

So yes, it is difficult to be off the beaten path. "They" will always try to pull you back, b/c if there's one thing our society's hate, it is real freedom. But you already know that. So take a deep breath, keep doing right by you and yours. Maybe others will learn by your example.
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  #23  
Old 02-21-2014
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

The bottom line on the referenced story is that someone made a judgement call regarding the family in Maryland. Unless someone here has first hand knowledge of that particular situation, no one here is in a position to second guess either the family, or the authorities (CPS / Coast Guard / Local LEO). From the reported story, this vessel would not pass any USCG inspection, and the CG has the right to remove the passengers of the vessel.

Regarding Pearson796's situation, it sounds as if the '796 family has it together, and is living a "rustic," but maintainable life style. I have not read where CPS or any LEO is looking closely at them, and get the impression that their vessel would pass a random USCG inspection for safety, and compliance (which the USCG has the express right to do at any time). If not, then perhaps this is the time to make repairs / modifications to make sure that you do.
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  #24  
Old 02-21-2014
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
The bottom line on the referenced story is that someone made a judgement call regarding the family in Maryland. Unless someone here has first hand knowledge of that particular situation, no one here is in a position to second guess either the family, or the authorities (CPS / Coast Guard / Local LEO). From the reported story, this vessel would not pass any USCG inspection, and the CG has the right to remove the passengers of the vessel.

Regarding Pearson796's situation, it sounds as if the '796 family has it together, and is living a "rustic," but maintainable life style. I have not read where CPS or any LEO is looking closely at them, and get the impression that their vessel would pass a random USCG inspection for safety, and compliance (which the USCG has the express right to do at any time). If not, then perhaps this is the time to make repairs / modifications to make sure that you do.
Uh...what? USCG can inspect my vessel, and if its underway, they can even ticket me for not having equipment aboard. But when do they have the right to remove me from my vessel?
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Old 02-21-2014
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
Uh...what? USCG can inspect my vessel, and if its underway, they can even ticket me for not having equipment aboard. But when do they have the right to remove me from my vessel?
Coast Guard Boarding Policy:

Quote:
To enforce these laws, the Coast Guard is empowered to
board and inspect vessels.
Many of the laws can be
successfully enforced only by boarding a vessel while it is
underway. Boardings are not necessarily based on
suspicion that a violation already exists aboard the vessel.
Their purpose is to prevent violations. The courts have
consistently upheld this authority. All Coast Guard officers
and petty officers are Federal law enforcement officers and
they may board any United States vessel anywhere
.
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  #26  
Old 02-21-2014
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

You may want to read this; Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 1 | Sailfeed
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  #27  
Old 02-21-2014
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
The bottom line on the referenced story is that someone made a judgement call regarding the family in Maryland. Unless someone here has first hand knowledge of that particular situation, no one here is in a position to second guess either the family, or the authorities (CPS / Coast Guard / Local LEO). From the reported story, this vessel would not pass any USCG inspection, and the CG has the right to remove the passengers of the vessel.

Regarding Pearson796's situation, it sounds as if the '796 family has it together, and is living a "rustic," but maintainable life style. I have not read where CPS or any LEO is looking closely at them, and get the impression that their vessel would pass a random USCG inspection for safety, and compliance (which the USCG has the express right to do at any time). If not, then perhaps this is the time to make repairs / modifications to make sure that you do.
I'm not defending those people.

I'm just saying that sometimes CPS goes in gun blazing with the attitude of kill them all, let god sort them out.

Those people were obviously not responsible human beings, let alone responsible parents.

What I am saying is that when one is not living a life inside the box, all of a sudden judgement calls become very subjective.

Then a parent is put in the position of justifying their lives or lifestyle and proving that it isn't detrimental to a child. It should be innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

With CPS is it always guilty until proven innocent and they are immune from being sued and are never they held accountable for lies or fabrications on reports.

They can say and do anything they want without fear of repercussion.
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
Uh...what? USCG can inspect my vessel, and if its underway, they can even ticket me for not having equipment aboard. But when do they have the right to remove me from my vessel?
This has already been answered, but in a nutshell, YES.

I was inspected on Lake Michigan and given a warning for having out of date flares. He could have easily given me a ticket but didn't.

I have no problem with the USCG inspecting me.
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

Again, USCG can BOARD...but they cant remove my vessel or remove me from my vessel unless I'm doing something illegal
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Re: I Want To Clarify Some Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
It's a little unsettling to think that the Coast Guard can swarm a marina in the middle of the night and start searching boats for no other reason than they are bored.
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