So, how do I prepare for a 5 year cruise with kids? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 151 Old 06-21-2006 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiacpaul
Seriously, We think its a wonder thing to do. Good luck to you and yours.
Oh, btw, I just happen to know the location of a couple of reeeeaaaallllyyyy nice Valiants, and an Amel.
Thanks-- in a year or so, I might ask you about the Valiants. We still struggle with the "buy the boat right before the cruise" and the "buy the boat 1-2 years before going" question.

For example, last weekend we checked out an Ingrid 38 that had a great price and three years of preparation done to her (new engine, all new electronics, excellent woodwork, good standing rigging, pulled and redone masts, etc.). I ran a thread about the boat with pics on the new SSCA board:

http://64.70.221.24/DiscBoard/viewtopic.php?t=15

Overall, despite some shortcomings, it's a boat that could "do" the cruise we're planning, and we might end up with $40 to 50k more in the kitty if we went with it instead of a Valiant. BUT, it's still too soon. We want offshore expereince in other's boats first, want a complete plan for departure, a solid kitty, time to sell down our possessions and other boats, etc.

You're right we'll never have it perfect, but it was fun to work out a "one year plan," but then re-adjust it to a possible two-year plan. Exciting stuff.

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post #32 of 151 Old 06-21-2006
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Hi Jim: I checked out the pictures, it looks like a very nice boat. The question of the boat being a bit tender is interesting. I don't know the engineering reason for this but Island Packets also get over powered very easily. You really have to reef them very early or they just struggle. I suspect that it is the full keel rather than a lack of ballast. But I am sure that there are people like sailingdog or someone like that who would know the answer off the top of their heads.
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post #33 of 151 Old 06-21-2006
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Jim, It's a great plan, you run with it! I understand the when to get the boat question, its a questin I runi nto often in my line of work. Heres what I tell them.

"It really doesn't matter to me if you get this boat, or that boat, or wait a year, or never set foot on a boat ever again. But, tomorrow, I'm casting off."
(your situation is indeed different, you really do need to check out a number of potentials before making a commitment of this magnitude)

For what its worth, I've heard the same thing about the IP's and the Ingrids, and I suspect the full keel as well.
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post #34 of 151 Old 07-11-2006 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hersch
If you have the will and the means, don't worry about sailing "around the world" just go out there and sail around...the world.

Marc
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Marc, I read your letter to Latitude 38 this morning while munching breakfast. Nicely done!

It's online at http://www.latitude38.com/letters/200607.htm


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post #35 of 151 Old 07-15-2006
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Full Keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiacpaul
For what its worth, I've heard the same thing about the IP's and the Ingrids, and I suspect the full keel as well.
I'm not so sure that the full keel is the issue here. There were plenty good pre-1960s full keel sailboats that can handle plenty of air.

I think perhaps the high aspect ratio vs a shoal draft keel may be an issue as you just don't get the lateral nor heeling resistance that you need in a blow without the leverage of a longer keel. The IPs have a shoal-draft (albeit full) keel, but carry plenty of sail up top.

Is it a matter of physics... less shoal depth requires a lower center of effort?

I'm no naval architect, but my experience is that every shoal-draft boat with a high rig I've sailed has been a bit of a pig in heavy air – requiring a mainsail reef in 20 - 25 knots and less headsail too, to keep her true.
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post #36 of 151 Old 07-15-2006
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Yes, well put. Sailing an IP in heavy air is like sailing in a cork!
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post #37 of 151 Old 07-15-2006 Thread Starter
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After thinking more about the Ingrid, and looking at a Westsail 32, I feel that it is possible to worry too much about being "slow and seaworthy." The argument made by the editors of Latitude 38 is that "speed is safety," and that an easier to sail performance/cruiser might be a better choice.

For the sake of simplicity, I'd definitely perfer a boat that would sail in lighter airs, and have a basic but strong sloop rig (while still being seaworthy).

With those ideas in mind, the Wauquiez 38s and 35s are interesting as possible blue water boats:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...64&searchtype=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...64&searchtype=

Baring that, with a lot of work, a Cal 40 could be fun (but maybe not strong enough for multiple ocean passages):

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...64&searchtype=

Back on the heavier, pure cruiser front, the Allied Princess is interesting:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...65&searchtype=


For me, the Ingrid and Westsails are aesthetically pleasing, and match the recommendations of most of the older cruiser books (heavy is safe), but it's hard to discount the truth that they are not necessarily easy boats to sail, and things like full keels and long bowsprits are not fun in close quarters and other situations.

Jim H

Last edited by Jim H; 07-15-2006 at 10:39 PM.
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post #38 of 151 Old 07-15-2006
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Jim H-

I am wondering why you think a Cal 40 is not strong enough for multiple ocean passages. The Cal 40 is one of the more successful ocean going racing designs...granted an older one...but of very good lineage. It may not be the most modern design...but is most definitely a most capable bluewater boat.

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post #39 of 151 Old 07-16-2006 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
I am wondering why you think a Cal 40 is not strong enough for multiple ocean passages. The Cal 40 is one of the more successful ocean going racing designs...granted an older one...but of very good lineage. It may not be the most modern design...but is most definitely a most capable bluewater boat.
My thoughts are that any given Cal 40 may or may not be a good choice, based on the following:

1) These boats were made in the 1960s, and many have been raced and cruised hard. How long can the strength of deck fittings and the hull/deck joint be expected to last, for example?

2) The "Construction" section of the Practical Sailor review makes it clear that there could be structural issues with Cal 40s. The tabbing of the wooden structures to the hull was light, and probably needs to be reinforced. The original design was to lighten the boat by making these structures integral to the strength of the hull, and failure of these bonds could be a big problem. The hull skin construction was also relatively light, with a tendency to oilcan in heavy weather, resulting in possible hull-deck leaks.

Now, these issues can obviously be addressed, or Cal 40s wouldn't be as popular as they are today for racing, but I also know that I probably won't have the war chest of funds and time that many racers have for reinforcing and maintaining a 1960s boat.

Thus, I think a Cal 40 could be a good choice, or a bad choice, based on previous care issues. In the end, however, we are talking about 40 year old boats, meaning that just about anything original on the boat could have a ? mark over it. I already have a 1967 and 1973 boat, and I wouldn't mind breaking into the 1980s someday...

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post #40 of 151 Old 07-16-2006
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Since in 5 years, you will probably encounter a storm, this should be helpful.

http://www.ezinearticles.com/?Prepar...torm&id=238742
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