Sail selection for family cruising ???? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Cruising and Sailing with Children
 Not a Member? 

Cruising and Sailing with Children All things sailing and kids related, from safety to life aboard.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-19-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gorham,Maine
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
JackRent is on a distinguished road
Sail selection for family cruising ????

My wife and I bought a Sabre 28 this winter and we plan to cruise the Maine Coast. My wife is convinced that in order to minimize healing and to sail "safely" we should only sail with the headsail (135% genoa). She has made this a family boating "rule". Well without the main, sailing to windward is a bear. Is it better to sail under main only or genoa only when using only one sail. I am not so concerned with turn of speed as I am with windward ability and ease of sailing. My kids are only 4 and 2 !
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 06-19-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gorham,Maine
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
JackRent is on a distinguished road
This should have been prefaced by saying I raised the main under light air conditions this weekend only to have the wind blow up to 15-20 knots in a matter of minutes. It put the boat quickly over to 30 degrees and my wife and kids didn't "appreicate" getting tossed around the cabin.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 06-19-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Sounds like both you and your wife need to take some courses on sailing, that teach the basics of sailing theory and science.

That said, few boats will sail safely under just a 135% Genoa, particularly upwind. Using this sail will often put the center of effort (COE) forward of the center of lateral resistance (CLR—usually near the keel's center). This makes it very difficult to tack the boat through the wind, with out the help of the main sail to balance the boat. This will also generally leave the boat with serious lee helm, which makes the boat difficult to sail upwind, and is fairly dangerous—if you lose control of the boat, it will head down, and if you're sailing close-hauled and not able to release the sheets in time, will come through a beam reach and seriously risk getting knocked down. A slight amount of weather helm is preferable to any amount of lee helm.

Some boats do sail well under just the main alone, but in many cases, this puts the COE behind the CLR, and may cause serious weather helm... making the boat harder to keep under control.

Ideally, the boat should be almost balanced with the COE almost directly above the CLR. As a boat heels, the COE moves outboard, and the hull's water profile becomes asymetrical, which both will tend to cause the boat to head down, if you're sailing upwind. Under just the Genoa, this is amplified.

If your wife is insistent on sailing on just a single sail at a time, which I don't recommend, I would say that you will probably want to sail upwind on just the main and downwind on just the genoa. At least doing this will put the COE in the proper location with respect to the CLR and help keep the boat going in the direction you want.

If your wife is so concerned with minimizing heeling (not healing, which is what you need when you get thrown across the boat and hurt) and believes that the only way to sail a boat is to sail it level, you would have been much better off getting a trimaran or catamaran.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 06-19-2006 at 10:50 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 06-19-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gorham,Maine
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
JackRent is on a distinguished road
I have personally been sailing for twenty years on dinghies, small cats, and windsurfers, not so much on larger boats. I am actually quite well versed on sailing theory. Sorry for typing healing instead of heeling. You probably got the point right ? My wife however is very green when it comes to sailing. The healing issue has to do mostly with my small children. 4 and 2 ! I appreciate your comments. Of course they make sense. I guess I am soliciting responses to best explain the whole situation to my wife. Center of effort and center of lateral resistance isn't going to cut it. Thanks.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 06-19-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gorham,Maine
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
JackRent is on a distinguished road
I typed healing again. Sorry ! HEELing.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 06-19-2006
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,390
Thanks: 63
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
What's needed here is some education, and some time to get used to the idea that the boat isn't going to fall over and stay there. Also, why are your wife and kids in the cabin?? Getting your family involved in sailing is best done in the cockpit. Even 4 year olds can be involved in some minor way, "helping" dad steer, "helping" tail the sheets.
The analogy I use for newbies re: ballast and heeling is to talk about those old punching clowns, you know, the inflatable clowns that had sandbags at the base that you could hit, they'd fall over and immediately stand up again? That visual usually helps them get used to the idea that the boat will return upright in the end.
Sailing is what it is, and heeling is part of the game and should not be something that, in itself, is feared. It's simply the physics of how things work.
I'm a lucky guy in that my wife would prefer to bash to weather at 25 degrees in 25 knots than sail downwind in 15 knots... go figure!

And Sailingdog is correct in saying there is a danger in sailing with the sailplan all forward.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 06-19-2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
FrankLanger is on a distinguished road
I agree with the others that sailing with only one or the other sail is not the best (though many boats do sail well with only the headsail!!). Have you considered sailing with both sails somewhat underpowered, so that even in a puff/gust, the boat won't heel much--I am thinking a 100% headsail and perhaps a reefed mainsail, even in relatively lighter airs, so your wife/kids can see that the boat can be stable and safe. When they get bored with the slow speed, and more comfortable with "boat motion", they may then ask you to shake out the reef, and eventually sail with a proper sized headsail. If you take baby steps til they get comfortable, they may become good crew for you.
Good luck!
Frank.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 06-19-2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,464
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Sailormon6 will become famous soon enough
Newbies are frightened when a sailboat heels because they don't have confidence that the boat won't fall over and dump them in the water, and because they don't have confidence that the skipper is actually in control of the boat. The only way you can overcome those fears is to prove the contrary. That means when the wife and kids are on the boat, you have to reduce sail area so that the boat is underpowered, and, if the wind pipes up, you have to reduce sail area further, so that the boat never heels to such an extent that it alarms them. After they gain confidence in the boat and in your ability to control it, they'll start to enjoy the exhilaratioin of the heeling, instead of being frightened by it, and then you can sail the boat with more sail area. You have to be patient with them at this point, or they'll all come to hate the boat. Give them time, and they'll come around.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 06-19-2006
Surfesq's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay, MD
Posts: 1,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Surfesq is on a distinguished road
Hey Jack:

I cruised New England and Maine with my wife (a novice sailor) and our daughter (2 at the time) for 3-4 months and had a wonderful time. But I heard to same requests from my wife. She simply did not want our daughter doing a header in the cabin. Quite understandable.

I would offer this suggestion: Try putting one or even two reefs in the mainsail and then reducing the area of the jib by unfurling only a small portion. This will reduce heeling significantly. You can also spill air from the main by letting out the traveler. But you really need both sails to maintain balance and power. Unfortunately, these measures will reduce heeling and with it speed. But if you are not in a hurry your wife will be grateful. I seem to remember motoring an awful lot in Maine anyway so perhaps your problems will solve themself!

Slightly off topic but perhaps helpful: We put in jacklines and netting on the lifelines. We anchored her to the lifeline through the back of her life jacket with a sail tie or nylon leash. She absolutely loved the freedom and became quite agile at moving around the decks! We were actually able to relax a bit at anchor while she occupied herself without worrying about her getting wet.
We also found that we could get her to wear the ski jacket type PDF for much longer than the traditional bulky type you see for kids. It's a trade-off not having the head floatation. But we felt that just getting her to wear it without fussing was a victory.
The "leash" as we called it also came in handy on the docks and in the dinghy. We simply hooked it around our wrists and let her walk or climb to the front of the dinghy.

Last edited by Surfesq; 06-19-2006 at 11:55 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 06-19-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gorham,Maine
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
JackRent is on a distinguished road
Great e-mails. I think the reefed main and a small jib makes a lot of sense. My wife and kids really enjoy being on the water. It is mostly the fact that my wife can't handle 2 kids in a tilted cockpit. Any competant, fun loving adults who want to sail and mind a two year old, please feel free to call. We sail out of Falmouth, Maine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My 3-5 Year Plan toward the Cruising Life ChrisJuricich Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 62 02-03-2011 01:46 PM
First time sail boat buyer martinojon Boat Review and Purchase Forum 18 06-15-2008 09:22 PM
Cruising with children Capt'nRog Cruising and Sailing with Children 1 11-26-2001 03:54 PM
Toerails and sail tracks edrads Gear & Maintenance 2 05-05-2001 07:05 AM
Beneteau in mast furling henryvand Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 11-15-2000 10:43 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:55 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012