Thoughts on child's safety harness please - Page 3 - SailNet Community
Cruising and Sailing with Children All things sailing and kids related, from safety to life aboard.

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 49 Old 03-14-2010
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,602
Thanks: 1
Thanked 53 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
However, when the Chesapeake gets windless and 98F and the water is nearly as warm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
Good find DH, thanks, maybe this is a better way to go...
... a harness allows for a cooler alternative, when the circumstances allow. Get both. There were many days when wearing a PFD full time would have meant staying home - little ones don't have the heat tolerance of adults. The danger of heatstroke would rival the danger of drowning.

That said, a little one can never be out of adult sight. Tape em' down, if you have to.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pdqaltair is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 49 Old 03-14-2010
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Very good point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
... a harness allows for a cooler alternative, when the circumstances allow. Get both. There were many days when wearing a PFD full time would have meant staying home - little ones don't have the heat tolerance of adults. The danger of heatstroke would rival the danger of drowning.

That said, a little one can never be out of adult sight. Tape em' down, if you have to.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #23 of 49 Old 03-15-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
A PFD does not replace a tether and harness either. A PFD is nice to grab the child gone over board, that's all. It does not prevent the child form being drowned. When my son (2) went over board in the harbour (with a Secumar PFD, correct size, but no tether nor harness) he turned face down DUE TO THE BUOYANCY OF THE DIAPERS.

When I complained about that the seller told me I should have read the tag in the inside of the PFD more closely. It says "full performance may not be achieved using certain clothing or in other circumstances".

So I read the tag more closely and found that it is "not compatible with safety harness!" as well.

Luis



Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
IMHO, you'd be better off getting the ones that attach to the tether on the back. The reason for this is simple. If they fall overboard and are being dragged face forward, they will likely drown before you can stop the boat. If the harness and tether attach on the back, they will be dragged backwards through the water and there is far less chance of them drowning.

Be aware that a tether and harness does not replace a PFD...

Alden44

Last edited by Alden44GER; 03-15-2010 at 08:20 AM.
Alden44GER is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #24 of 49 Old 03-15-2010
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,917
Thanks: 3
Thanked 124 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
We dont use them. I am not against them per se, and every parent has to make that decision based upon their child(s) ability to swim, your comfort level with the boat, your rules and location.

We sail in warm waters. Our kids have always been on a boat if not living aboard. They can both swim. However, the standing rule on the boat is the second they come up the companionway, their life jacket has to be on. They cannot go forward without permission (which requires me watching them). In nasty weather, we send them down below.

THat is the system that works for us. Others may feel differently and should act to their comfort level. I will say that we will likely be buying Chase (my oldest) an inflateable with harness soon as our destinations may require him having to go forward with me in less than ideal conditions. However, many of you have no interest in bluewater sailing/passages, and that might be an overkill.

I am not in any way trying to waver anyones opinion. I am only telling you what we do and what works for us.

Brian

PS Mustang it top notch good stuff. If you want a headrest with crotch strap, I would buy nothing else. If your child cannot swim well, I would buy nothing else. For inflateables, we lean to Sospenders with harness, but that is just our preference.

Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cruisingdad is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #25 of 49 Old 03-15-2010
Moderator
 
JohnRPollard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 5,680
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
T37Chef,

As you've seen from the responses, there are different views on this subject. Here are mine:

Quote:

Standing Rules

PFDs --

Non-swimmers -- Regardless of age, must wear a life jacket (pfd) at all times while on deck, dock, dinghy.

Swimmers

-- 12 and under, at all times when underway (per USCG rules), on deck, dock, dinghy

-- Over 12, as conditions and course warrant


Harnesses -- Subject to exceptions noted below,

- Off-shore, used at all times (day/night, fair/foul weather) when on deck

- In-shore/coastal, as conditions and crew contingent dictate

Exceptions:

- Harnesses will be worn in-shore/coastal for overnight passages

- Harnesses will be worn in-shore/coastal when water temps present increased risk of hypothermia

- Harnesses will be used in-shore/coastal when solo- or effectively solo-sailing

- Harnesses may be omitted when parents conclude risk to young children from using is greater than benefit

So, we would always have any non-swimmer wear a pfd. Wearing a harness is not a substitute. Case closed.

Harnesses have their place too. But, harnesses can be tricky with some young kids, particularly toddlers. They only work if the individual is clipped in -- yet kids can unclip in a flash. And as another member pointed out, just like at home/on land, there can be a very serious risk of strangulation when toddlers have unsupervised access to chords, lines, etc.

Sometimes that risk is of the accidental kind, other times it is deliberate on the part of the toddler. But it is very real and you only need to go look at the statistics. Toddlers and chords are not a good combination.

Ultimately, there is no substitute for vigilance. Having young kids aboard does add stress for the parents, and neither pfds nor harnesses are a cure-all. But once kids become competent swimmers, and they are at least able to maintain their heads above water while wearing the pfd, the margin of safety does improve. So early swimming lessons are important too.

We've always favored the Mustang pfds for our kids. But that Crewsaver pfd to which Docksaver linked is a very nice unit.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

NEVER CALLS CRUISINGDAD BACK....CAN"T TAKE THE ACCENT

Last edited by JohnRPollard; 03-15-2010 at 09:11 AM.
JohnRPollard is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #26 of 49 Old 03-15-2010
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
JRP—

Sensible set of rules. I'd point out that being in the cockpit on most boats requires the wearing of PFDs by children in many states. Only being down below, in the cabin, removes that requirement.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #27 of 49 Old 03-15-2010 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
T37Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,507
Thanks: 79
Thanked 56 Times in 40 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Thanks for the responses, all good. I really appreciate the time spent in discussing the pros and con and all the information.

I think I will buy the one from defender and use it as we feel its needed.

Not that I agree with the MD law, but my understanding is PFD's are not required to be worn on a boat over 21 ft in length?

"Maryland law states that all children under the age of 7 must WEAR a United States Coast Guard approved Personal Flotation Device (life jacket - Type I, II, III or V) while underway on a recreational vessel under 21 feet in length on Maryland waters."
Maryland Department of Natural Resources - Boating

Cheers,
Shawn

S/V Windgeist
1982 Tartan 37C

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
T37Chef is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #28 of 49 Old 03-15-2010
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,096
Thanks: 30
Thanked 58 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Shaun,

Wait for Defenders 4 day sale march 25-28


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
chef2sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #29 of 49 Old 03-15-2010
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Believe PFDs are required unless the kids are in the cabin.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #30 of 49 Old 03-16-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,370
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyt View Post
sorry for the high jack shawn.

as for the harness does anybody make a pfd for kids with a built in harness, or seen a strong lifting handle a tether could be attached to? doing a harness and a separate pfd seems like it could get annoying to all involved
agreed! Would be nice if extrasport or others would just make a standard life vest with a built in harness. I'm still never comfortable trusting inflatables, and the expense of these for kids, hell adults for that matter, seems pretty silly. (no, please don't 'what's your life worth' me... the cheaper option we know works each and every time. The expensive option is merely more 'comfortable'. Yes, I'm stupid and have both. End of rant. Carry on.
puddinlegs is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Offshore Safety Reviewed SailNet Her Sailnet Articles 0 06-13-2002 08:00 PM
Offshore Safety Made Simple Liza Copeland Seamanship Articles 0 03-05-2002 07:00 PM
Offshore Safety Made Simple Liza Copeland Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 03-05-2002 07:00 PM
Offshore Safety Made Simple Liza Copeland Cruising Articles 0 03-05-2002 07:00 PM
Offshore Safety Made Simple Liza Copeland Her Sailnet Articles 0 03-05-2002 07:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome