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post #41 of 49 Old 03-18-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
Before I buy two during the defender sale next week, where do I find ones like you suggest?

I found one at Wal Mart?
Walmart.com: Goldbug - 2-in-1 Monkey Child Safety Harness: Travel Solutions
Useless without a crotch strap.
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post #42 of 49 Old 03-18-2010 Thread Starter
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Useless without a crotch strap.
Yea, but the monkey on the back is cool

Cheers,
Shawn

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post #43 of 49 Old 03-30-2010
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We sail with 3 kids. Rules are, when underway, everyone has a life vest on
( except in the cabin.) The adults had inflatables. With passages,or rough seas, we harnessed in, including the kids, under the lifejacket.
Though we sailed from the time they were babies, we only started using harnesses when we were cruising. The youngest always had a lifejacket on, except when in the cabin. This still holds true until he proves he is a better swimmer. ( he is 7 now).We have started letting him sit in the cockpit without one when at anchor. The older two are teens and now just wear lifejackets when under way ( with protest from them and the captain). We now have inflatables for them to make it easier. Harnesses for rough seas and passages.
I would not trust an inflatable with a younger child. Too many variables.
Get one with the hook on the back, handy in more than one instance.
( Moving from dinghy to boat, rock climbing . My youngest wore one so often it was second nature.
It is best to establish rules that are clear. Be aware that if you wear one as well, you set a good example!
Best wishes. This is just what we have done, Cruisingmom and chief safety officer.
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post #44 of 49 Old 03-30-2010
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Be aware that in many states, if the child is not in the cabin, a PFD IS REQUIRED, at least for children under the age of 12.

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We sail with 3 kids. Rules are, when underway, everyone has a life vest on
( except in the cabin.) The adults had inflatables. With passages,or rough seas, we harnessed in, including the kids, under the lifejacket.
Though we sailed from the time they were babies, we only started using harnesses when we were cruising. The youngest always had a lifejacket on, except when in the cabin. This still holds true until he proves he is a better swimmer. ( he is 7 now).We have started letting him sit in the cockpit without one when at anchor. The older two are teens and now just wear lifejackets when under way ( with protest from them and the captain). We now have inflatables for them to make it easier. Harnesses for rough seas and passages.
I would not trust an inflatable with a younger child. Too many variables.
Get one with the hook on the back, handy in more than one instance.
( Moving from dinghy to boat, rock climbing . My youngest wore one so often it was second nature.
It is best to establish rules that are clear. Be aware that if you wear one as well, you set a good example!
Best wishes. This is just what we have done, Cruisingmom and chief safety officer.

Sailingdog

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #45 of 49 Old 03-30-2010 Thread Starter
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Over or Under?

So I purchased two from Defender, after all we're sailing the Chesapeake for now, in most cases I would have them go below in bad weather anyway.

I see some of you saying the harness should be fitted over a PFD, some say under . I suppose the best is to go with what the manufacturer states Does it matter and why?

Thanks for all the feedback.

Cheers,
Shawn

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1982 Tartan 37C

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post #46 of 49 Old 03-30-2010
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Let me start by saying I'm not "captain safety"...

... but that I am not speaking from theory or regulations either. I have a thousand days in harnesses and real world experieince with kids, both climbing and sailing.

Sail Delmarva: Are You "Captain Safety?"

The main thing with any harness is FIT. The straps on combo harnesses are too low and can cause broken ribs. It's happened.

A harness for a kid must fit well. they have less bone structure and can slidd out. If you think that is a concern on a boat, it is a REAL concern on a cliff. Crotch straps are required.

A small child must be within adult sight at all times.

As for PFDs on larger boat, grand words from the CG and folks that don't summer in hot climates. There is no harness that is not too hot under some circumstances. The answer is responsibility and parenting. Hard rules lead to solutions that don't make sense. I can think of endless OSHA examples.

If it gets nasty, a PFd will go over a kids harness easily - done it many times.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




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Under, especially if the PFD is an inflatable.... If it is over the PFD it is too loose and can slide off the body or down on the body and cause injury in use. If it is over an inflatable PFD...and the PFD inflates, it will suffocate the kid by preventing him/her from breathing.

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Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
So I purchased two from Defender, after all we're sailing the Chesapeake for now, in most cases I would have them go below in bad weather anyway.

I see some of you saying the harness should be fitted over a PFD, some say under . I suppose the best is to go with what the manufacturer states Does it matter and why?

Thanks for all the feedback.

Sailingdog

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #48 of 49 Old 03-30-2010 Thread Starter
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I wish they made an inflatable PFD for kids, or did I miss something somewhere?


Cheers,
Shawn

S/V Windgeist
1982 Tartan 37C

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post #49 of 49 Old 03-30-2010
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Chef,
One added thing. Whatever safety device you require your kids to wear, you need to wear one too along with everyone else on board. Our kids grew up on our boats -- in fact one of our sons was almost born aboard. We had them all wear harnesses with short tethers and they had to hook up to the jacklines whenever they came on deck.
As has been pointed out, there are a lot of days during the Chesapeake summer when wearing a regular life jacket would be considered cruel and unusual punishment and banned under the 8th amendment. On those days the kids wore onlly the hanresses and tethers.
I'm firmly convinced that the reason they took to it so easily was that my wife and I also wore harnesses and hooked up whenever we came up topside. Do as I says not as I do never worked real well with out kids and expect not with many others.
It also was good practice for when we cruised up to New England and they would hook up without even thinking whenever they came topside.

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