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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2007
nwpacketeer nwpacketeer is offline
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Cruising Europe

I want to hear about those fortunates who have sailed in Europe and learn from them what are the issues of sailing there. Topics from visas and passports, VAT and avoidance of same, cruising the canals (as in France and Germany), moorage options, and any thing else that would be useful to a novice heading over there.

Giulietta makes a good point about the VAT....I am looking to avoiding payment of the tax on our vessel, not on the many purchases we will be making while cruising.

Thanks to all contributors for their help.

P. Perkins
nwpacketeer

Last edited by nwpacketeer : 03-29-2007 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 03-29-2007
Giulietta Giulietta is offline
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May I suggest you pay taxes here?? such as VAT...keeps you welcome for starts, and will open a lot of doors for you...we all pay taxes...its bad but that is the way it is...

I don't go to the States and try not to pay taxes..not fare...

Are you a US citizen?

In the mean time..please read this thread...it has some stuff about Portugal (the best place in Europe) and Spain.

Thank you

Last edited by Giulietta : 03-29-2007 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 03-29-2007
paulk paulk is offline
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Lots of options

Europe has lots of options. We sailed the east coast of Ireland after arriving from Connecticut and had a great time visiting little harbors and exploring the towns they come with. Kinsale, Crosshaven, Wickford, Rosslare, DunLaeirghie (sp?), Howth and Strangford Loch come to mind. We had problems in Rosslare because of the ferries, and the harbor being rather tight. We continued up to Dunoon, in Scotland, where the customs inspectors came aboard from a boat that was bigger than we were. The Isle of Man is fascinating, with stone walls all over, and the Scillies entirely different - more wild and sandy. We continued down to Royan, at the mouth of the Gironde in France, where there is a Chagall chapel worth visiting, and then on to Arcachon, where the huge sand dunes protect miles of oyster beds, conveniently close to Bordeaux... There are extensive marina facilities in Arcachon as well. St. Jean de Luz is another quaint fishing port, just north of the Spanish border.

The French canals are another story entirely. No tides, negligible current (as opposed to places like Strangford Loch, where the eddies have centers two feet deeper than their edges, and Arcachon, where a tide can run at 8 knots too.) The main caveat on the canals might be draft. Many of the smaller and older canals that are the most interesting aren't too deep. Some canals may also close on short (read: no) notice due to drops in water level tied to rainfall, and/or maintenance (dredging). The Canal du Bourgogne, one of the major North/South thoroughfares for barge traffic, and its large tie-ins will be deep enough for a keeled sailboat, but will also carry hefty commercial traffic that you will need to keep clear of. All those péniches on the quai in Paris have to get there somehow. The big canals also go through industrial centers in big cities that are not as picturesque. It is still France, however, so there is likely something prettier just around the next bend, and the restaurants (of course) are not to be beaten.

Another item of concern would be filling LPG gas tanks, since their nozzles are different. You might want to look for an adapter nozzle, or getting European tanks might be simpler (and possibly cheaper, if you re-sell them upon departure?). Also, some canals close for maintenance (dredging) Take several American flags. We wore out at least one, and you might give them as souvenirs to new-found friends. (Or in case it gets stolen and burned...) The present of a club burgee can also be a nice token, but after two seasons up with the others in their collection, no one will know it's from an American club unless it's something like the NYYC.
Have a nice trip. (Let me know if you need crew!
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Old 03-29-2007
Giulietta Giulietta is offline
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Paul

Did you come to Portugal??
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Old 03-29-2007
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NW...there are a huge number of issues to deal with for an American boat. The best overview I've found is here:
Whoosh

this link focuses on preparing the boat but read the whole left hand menu as there is lots more to it. Jack Tyler who wrote it all can often be found on the ssca.org board and is most helpful and knowledgeable.
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Old 04-07-2007
haffiman37 haffiman37 is offline
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When people talk about cruising Europe, everyone talksthe Med, Portugal, UK etc. If possibel, get a trip up 'north' to Scandinavia. Finland, Sweeden and Norway may have some of the most challenging areas when it comes to navigation and sailing in between thousands of islands. Sail northern Norway where the sun never goes down!
Might be some distances between marinas, but on the other hand You may make landfall almost wherever You like and there is an empty spot! Shoreline is in most areas considdered 'public' area. (bring steel-bolts to attach Your mooring lines).

Downside: Expencive! Marinafees similar to Europe in general, 'tax free' diesel (Norway).
One more warning: Guns are not popular anywhere in Europe, licence from US or not!
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Old 04-07-2007
Hawkeye25 Hawkeye25 is offline
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What is the story with the VAT as assessed against a cruisers boat? Is it true that if you stay in Europe for more than three or six months or something, that you can be slapped with a huge tax on your boat? As if you've imported it or something? That is what I'm concerned about. And, if I'm not mistaken, we don't do that to European cruisers who come to America - - or do we?
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Old 04-07-2007
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VAT is assessed at 18 months now. At that point the boat is considered "imported" unless you have left for a non-EU country like Turkey or Norway and returned to start the clock ticking again.
Note also that the Schengen Treaty provisions will limit your PERSONAL stay in many EU countries to 90 days (or 6 months with an extension I think) so you may want to pay attention to that as well as VAT status.
I don't know what you mean by "we don't do that" ...since many states assess sales tax and/or personal property tax on any boat within their borders for 60-90 days or so. Foreign boats are not exempt.
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Old 04-07-2007
Hawkeye25 Hawkeye25 is offline
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You're kidding, right?

A sales or property tax assessed on my boat in any state I stay in for more than 90 days? You mean, if I live aboard and hang in Florida for the winter, they want a sales tax for the boat I built myself? And a long spring and summer around Baltimore means another sales tax? Then, an operation at a Massachusetts VA hospital and slow recuperation means another sales or property tax? You're kidding, right?

I have no objection to paying the VAT tax in Europe, as long as I see it coming and have prepared for it. I'm a recently disabled Vet though, and need to be ready. I can't have someone pounce on my boat and impound it for a fee I couldn't hope to raise. It's all I have. Without it, I'm on the street.

Hawk
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Old 04-07-2007
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Hawkeye..most states have recipricol tax agreements for sales tax but personal property tax is due either way. Let me tell you how it works through an example. If you bought a boat in say...NC and paid 4% sales tax and moved it to say NY where there is a 6% sales tax for 90 days or more then you would be liable for NYS sales tax but be given recipricol credit for the tax you've already paid and thus owe another 2% sales tax.
I'm not sure how home built boats are treated for sales tax but some states call the tax sales and USE tax and get ya that way by establishing a value for the boat and imposing a one time fee for the use of it in their waters for 90 days or more continuously or something similar.
Personal property tax is an ANNUAL tax which is imposed by many states on property like cars/boats/planes which is kept within their borders. It doesn't matter where you reside or where the boat is registered or documented. Where it IS is all that matters. In many southern states (Maryland to GA) this tax will average 1000 bucks on a 100K boat...but each county is different so you have to check local requirements. The only way to avoid this tax is to keep moving!
Florida since you mentioned it..has a sales tax but no personal property tax...they make it up in marina dock rates! (G)
As to Europe...VAT is pegged at 18% of the boats assessed valuation as determined by the European authorities...(not your assessment). Europe prices are a lot higher than US for the same boat so you might figure on tax at about 25% of what you think the boat is worth on the market here.
Hope that is helpful info for you.
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