Cuba?

[MARRSY]

Now I'll admit I found the threads by the TJC01010 guy amusing as hell - but I can't believe no one ever said something about his claim of sailing to Cuba and then on to Mexico - I surprised someone hasn't sent the banana hamock picture and website to the USCG - if nothing else we'd probably be able to see what the US does... and get an answer to this debate.

[pedrodelrio]

Folks,

Under the current administration, previous loopholes that allowed U.S. sailors to take their boats to Cuba have been closed. Potential fines for doing so range up to $55,000. There is likely a provision that includes seizure of your vessel.

I have website well stocked with information about the nuances of this law.

For example, as a fulltime journalist, I can travel to Cuba at will and do, but even with this "general license" I cannot go aboard my boat. That requires a license from the U.S. Commerce Department (not Treasury that's not for boats but for people). That's when the Catch 22 applies, Commerce must seek comment on your application from 1. The Pentagon, 2. The Energy Department (I don't know why) and 3. The State Department.

As a matter of routine, State routinely stamps each application for any vessel under 100 meters in length with the phrase "not in the interest of U.S. foreign policy." Application denied. I have gone through the application process and spoken to others as well.

So if you are a U.S. citizen, you are not going to take your boat to Cuba legally unless you have friend in Condoleza Rice. As you can guess, I get many inquiries from U.S. cruisers wanting to explore cruisers. I advise them not to under the current circumstances. Regime change--theirs and ours--is not far off.

What's more the noise made by the Bush administration, when it instituted this crackdown also intimidated Canadian sailors into taking Cuba off their cruising itineraries, even though there was no legal basis for their fears.

Read about it all on my cubacruising.net site.

Peter Swanson

[camaraderie]

Welcome aboard Peter. I have referenced your site previously here on the tale of Ray Olivers' wreck and travails in Cuba. Nice site!

[sailaway21]

Pedro and Pegasus will also soon be offering facts and information on violating the sanctions against Iran. Yes, you too will be able to experience the wonderful cruising destination currently housed in the ancient Persian paradise. Experience the thrill of sailing with the Revolutionary Guard as they patrol for wayward British prizes of opportunity. Experience the thrill of watching the big tankers load, funding the world-wide terror movement. Enjoy a country that knows how to keep those pesky Christians in line; there's no need for the Moral Majority when Allah is in charge of the government. Day trips to the training camps for Freedom Fighters as well as the Atoms for Peace Project are in the early planning stages. You too will be able to cruise the very waters that have thrilled and excited such legendary bon-vivants as Hugo and Fidel. Call today for your complimentary T-shirt, available just for the asking, that says, "Totalitarian Tour '08" or the ever popular, "I Don't See No Stinkin" Suffering". Call now, space and shirts are limited. Notice: We are currently unable to accomodate those with alternative lifestyles due to certain Iranian immigration and cultural issues, which are a result of US propaganda.

[pedrodelrio]

Sailaway can be amusing, but he writes better than he reads. To summarize my post, my advice to U.S. citizens is not to violate the embargo, nor is my website an apologist for the Castro Regime, a dictatorship.

Having said that, and having traveled in both the Middle East and Cuba, I would say that ordinary Cubans are in many ways better off than the folks living under the thumb of governments allied to the United States and therefore okay for Americans to visit.

I do confess to supporting the right for Americans to travel freely, and I do not believe, based on reporting in Cuba and study, that the embargo against Cuba has any chance of success. If it did, then there might be some greater good in taking away the rights of free people to go where they choose. That is not the case. Not even close.

Go to the website, Sailaway, then you might come away with a different impression.

Peter Swanson

[sailaway21]

Peter,
I have seen your site and it is quite nicely done. Regardless of how well done the site is, it's mere existence foments the desire to visit Cuba and facilitates the same. Both of which you freely acknowledge on the site. Regardless of the fact of US policy towards Cuba I continue to find it unconscionable that anyone can or would advocate going to Cuba. The Cuban economy is controlled by a totalitarian regime that oppressed it's people and that economy is greatly aided by the influx of foreign currency. Foreign currency does nothing, in fact-less than nothing, to improve the lot of the average Cuban since it is illegal for them to possess foreign currency or reap the benefits of foreign trade. What that foreign currency does do is fund the despotic dictatorship that those Cubans live under and extend it's life. Therefore I regard your actions and the monies you reap to be immoral and ill-gotten gains. If you'd like to discuss those governments which you feel are more oppresive of their people, while acting as allies of the US, where trade and visas are allowed, I look forward to your list of nations and their oppressions in an Off Topic thread. Until then I will continue to marvel at your concerns about the travel possibilities for free Americans while ignoring how those possibilities can impact the lives of a people who have known no freedom for generations. A more selfish or self-absorbed ethos I cannot imagine.

[camaraderie]

Sway..without getting off topic...we CAN go to China, Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar...all of which I would consider as bad as Castro. I disagree with your assessment of Peter/Pedro's site and intentions. Someday soon we will all be able to visit a FREE Cuba and his site whets my appetite for THAT day. His home page stranded sailor article does nothing if not to discourage sailors from going there.

[pedrodelrio]

Folks,

I subscribe to the the very unradical notion, shared by all America's friends and allies in the world and even a growing number of younger Cuban-Americans here at home, that the embargo does hurt ordinary Cuban people by giving the Castro regime a convenient excuse for its failed economy: Blame the Yankees.

Lift the embargo and you reveal instantly that the emperor has no clothes. What's your excuse now, Raul?

I would correct some of Sailaway's assumptions. If he had ever visited Cuba, he would see that some tourist money does find its way into the hands of ordinary Cubans, despite the government's cruel policy of keeping the lion's share. This is particularly true of cruiser spending because we move around outside the resort complexes and therefore exist somewhat outside of government control.

That is perhaps why the Cuban authorities themselves can be cool toward cruisers (if not downright nasty), because they can't control how we spend our money.

The embargo, on the other hand, does not hurt the Communist elite of Cuba one bit. They live very well despite our best efforts to prevent hard cash from entering the country.

It's funny to hear Sailaway write so passionately and contrarily when we are in basic agreement. We agree things ain't right in Cuba. I just happen to believe in a pragmatic approach to the problem, rather than Sailaway's more ideological belief system. I think we could use more pragmatism and less ideology if we are to avoid bloodshed during the inevitable transition to Cuban democracy.

I do believe allowing Americans to cruise the coast of Cuba would do more to help ordinary Cubans than it would the Cuban government.

Peter Swanson

[PorFin]

All,

I've got a bit closer view of things, since:

a) I'm a US citizen;
b) I currently live on the hard in Havana; and
c) I live here legally and with full US Government approval.

I've got a few observations that may be of interest.

First, much of what has been said previously is demonstrably correct (from all quarters of the raging debate.)

As Peter mentioned, tourist money doesn't all go directly to the Cuban government. Years ago, Fidel relaxed a bit and allowed many Cuban families to run/operate restaurants (paladares) out of their homes. Although these entrepreneurs in training are required to purchase food from the more expensive supermarkets (rather than using their food ration allowances) they do seem to turn a modest profit. This is just a single example of private enterprise being allowed to exist, albeit a rather small one.

On the other hand, virtually every large operation of any type is run by the government. Believe me, in spite of the sanctions they are not hurting for business. There are lots of tourists (and many well-off locals) who patronize these etablishments.

Second, any US citizen contemplating trying to "slip in under the radar" and visiting here would best leave that for some future date. Not all relations between our two governments are icy (though most are.) There is a fair amount of positive cooperations in the law enforcement, weather, customs, and homeland security arenas. Although it doesn't make big splashes in the major US media, extraditions from Cuba to the US are taking place.

Third, although my wife and I considered it (and there was nothing that says we couldn't) we elected not to try and bring a vessel to Havana. Too many uncertainties over whether or not we'd be allowed to leave aboard our vessel when it was time for us to return home.

BTW: There's a decent Chinese restaurant at the Marina Hemingway -- it's a favorite of many expats who live in west Havana, and to get there you have to drive right along the quay where all of the foreign vessels are berthed. A US vessel stands out and will be noticed. I've had chats with many Canadian cruisers, but virtually every vessel that looks to be from the US has "No Pasar" quarantine seals on all hatches/ports, with no crew to be found.

If anyone has specific questions about Marina Hemingway, I'd be glad to try and answer them -- shoot me a pm, and I'll take a whack at it.

PF

[heslopg]

I am a Canadian and regularly floating in S. FL. Last I researched, the Executive Orders read that if 'they' found Cuban charts aboard and suspected I might leave the USA for Cuban waters they could seize the vessel & remove the crew. We figured we'd find other cruising grounds. You?