Sensible Cruising

[sailingdog]

It has a lot more to do with mindset and expectations than anything else IMHO. There are people who are in cruising for the travel, the voyages between destinations and such... and then there are people who see a sailboat as an alternative to air travel and feel that there is no reason to do without all the conveniences of home: hot and cold running water, push to flush toilets, microwave ovens, HD large screen TVs, etc.

Personally, I choose to use my boat as a refuge from a lot of the materialism and conspicuous consumption of the rat race... and don't see a need to have a 40'+ beastie... especially when my boat can run most of those 40' beasties down without me even trying.

I have Sensible Cruising, and like the approach and mindset it has about cruising.... far better than what is the focus of most of the modern sailing press, where you have to have a $300,000 boat to safely cross oceans... BS... small boats have been crossing oceans for a long, long time. The main reason that the mainstream sailing press panders to the larger boats is that is where the advertising money is. It takes almost as much time to make a good <30' sailboat as it does to make a >35' sailboat, and the prices you can reasonably get people to pay for them are so much smaller, as are the profit margins. Some one might pay $100,000 for a 28-30' boat, brand new... but a 40' would be $250,000-300,000 of the same build quality.

[Plumper]

Originally Posted by vega1860

I had a friend in Honolulu who dreamed of cruising someday. He had the same problem with headroom. Got an old wooden thing that sailed like the Mayflower and was nearly as old. He eventually wound up selling it and moving to North Dakota

Alas, I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never stand upright inside boats. After 30 year's in the Navy (most of it crouched) and after 4 years as skipper of a 102' ketch (bunks too short) I have decided to sit down while inside boats.

There are two places in my boat where I can stand naturally, under the hatch in the galley and under the hatch in the pilothouse.

Bummer!

[Valiente]

We are currently equipping a boat for long-term (five years, we hope) cruising and we face these questions every day. Capacity isn't so much an issue as it's a steel full-keeler of some 40 feet on deck, 42 LOA. We are going for some complexity in the energy-self-sufficiency department because we'll have a child aboard, and I write for a living, necessitating some way to stay in touch offshore to run in a minor way my business and to transmit and receive educational materials for our kid.

We will also be renting out the house as two flats, and while I will assign to a manager the general landlording duties, I will have to approve expeditures, file house taxes, monitor utilities, etc.

Generally, we are moving into a fairly rarefied subset of cruisers: the anchoring-out, lone wolf types, and the equipment list is reflecting this.

Stuff we won't have: Air conditioning on the hook, a diesel genset, a fully electric windlass, a RIB, a 9.9 HP outboard, cockpit lockers, huge alternators, bow thrusters, electric winches, davits, two heads, dedicated nav displays, satphone.

Stuff we will have/already have: Espar heating for offshore, Mermaid A/C plus heat if we are on shore power; a Honda gas genset, a custom arch for comms, shade and 3 or 4 large solar panels; 4 x 8D AGMs; wind generator that can be towed, like a Duo-Gen; two tenders (Portabote and nesting dinghy) stowed on deck; small workshop forward; 2000 W inverter/charger; foot pumps for water; only one head; PC-based nav display; extensive fuel filtering, a separate polish tank; new water tanks; manual-optional windlass; four anchors; multiple rodes; feathering prop, large inventory of spares.

The idea is to stay independent of the shore when desirable in order to reduce costs. I don't object to tying up in a marina now and then, but it runs counter to our ideals of self-sufficient cruising. I would rather get more months of zero-sum cruising (the house rental will pay down the mortgage, the utilities and probably my diesel bills, and I can afford $25K/year for our trip, which is plenty if I'm not eating ashore every night) than to have a gold-plated trip. We may haul out for a season in New Zealand to put our boy in school and do maintenance halfway through our trip.

Beth Leonard's "Voyager's Handbook" is very good at laying out the different styles of cruising: the totally budget "do it now with what you've got" idea all the way to the high-life style found in the Caribbean. Our boat, and our plans, are more "Ocean Navigator" oriented, because we intend to go off the beaten track a little farther...we haven't ruled out high-latitude sailing as the boat is built for it.

Anyway, that's where we are now: making complex adjustments in order to have a simple life aboard.

[vega1860]

Michael, I'm glad you liked our website. Your wife can talk to my wife if it will help. We are quite comfortable on our boat, I can assure you. We just don't have a lot of room to roam around or store things we don't need. And did you know that, In Hawaii they say that you aren't really a cruiser if Lin and Larry Pardee haven't bummed a tow from you?

Sailingdog - very astute. Magazines are in business to make money and subscription fees generally only just barely pay the postage. Operating costs, salaries and profits all come from advertisers. The job of the magazine is to convince you to buy what the advertisers are selling. If you've never bought magazine advertising you may not realize that editorial support is often part of the package. In other words, if Acme boats buys a half page add in Crackerjack Sailor Magazine, chances are that there will also be a favorable article about the new Acme 44 Magnum Supercruiser in the same issue. Ad salesmen will often offer a cover photo and feature article as an inducement to an advertiser to buy a full page or inside cover ad for a number that starts with $ and ending in many zeros. In my former working life I had a good friend in the "Public Relations" department of a major corporation who was paid a lot of $$ to make sure her company's products got favorable treatment from the press.

Magazines, radio and TV of course, movies and even books are infiltrated with subtle and some not so subtle marketing messages to convince you that you need somebody's product. If that weren't enough, they also spend a ton of money on lobbyists to make sure you continue to have access to easy credit so that if you don't have the cash you can still buy the product.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not some anti-corporation hippie. I know who signed the paychecks and where the profits came from that enabled me to retire at 58 (From a job in sales and marketing) I also know that most companies provide products and services that genuinely benefit the public. I'm truly glad that there is a West Marine store down the street. I'm just sayin'.....

That Acme 44 Magnum at $XXX,000.99 won't take you any farther than a Pearson Triton or Albin Vega you can buy for $10,000 or less and will probably have blisters in two years, which the Triton or Vega will not.

Malie ke kai

[vega1860]

Originally Posted by Valiente

We are currently equipping a boat for long-term (five years, we hope) cruising and we face these questions every day. Capacity isn't so much an issue as it's a steel full-keeler of some 40 feet on deck, 42 LOA. We are going for some complexity in the energy-self-sufficiency department because we'll have a child aboard, and I write for a living, necessitating some way to stay in touch offshore to run in a minor way my business and to transmit and receive educational materials for our kid.

We will also be renting out the house as two flats, and while I will assign to a manager the general landlording duties, I will have to approve expeditures, file house taxes, monitor utilities, etc.

Generally, we are moving into a fairly rarefied subset of cruisers: the anchoring-out, lone wolf types, and the equipment list is reflecting this.

Stuff we won't have: Air conditioning on the hook, a diesel genset, a fully electric windlass, a RIB, a 9.9 HP outboard, cockpit lockers, huge alternators, bow thrusters, electric winches, davits, two heads, dedicated nav displays, satphone.

Stuff we will have/already have: Espar heating for offshore, Mermaid A/C plus heat if we are on shore power; a Honda gas genset, a custom arch for comms, shade and 3 or 4 large solar panels; 4 x 8D AGMs; wind generator that can be towed, like a Duo-Gen; two tenders (Portabote and nesting dinghy) stowed on deck; small workshop forward; 2000 W inverter/charger; foot pumps for water; only one head; PC-based nav display; extensive fuel filtering, a separate polish tank; new water tanks; manual-optional windlass; four anchors; multiple rodes; feathering prop, large inventory of spares.

The idea is to stay independent of the shore when desirable in order to reduce costs. I don't object to tying up in a marina now and then, but it runs counter to our ideals of self-sufficient cruising. I would rather get more months of zero-sum cruising (the house rental will pay down the mortgage, the utilities and probably my diesel bills, and I can afford $25K/year for our trip, which is plenty if I'm not eating ashore every night) than to have a gold-plated trip. We may haul out for a season in New Zealand to put our boy in school and do maintenance halfway through our trip.

Beth Leonard's "Voyager's Handbook" is very good at laying out the different styles of cruising: the totally budget "do it now with what you've got" idea all the way to the high-life style found in the Caribbean. Our boat, and our plans, are more "Ocean Navigator" oriented, because we intend to go off the beaten track a little farther...we haven't ruled out high-latitude sailing as the boat is built for it.

Anyway, that's where we are now: making complex adjustments in order to have a simple life aboard.

The advantage of a forty footer is (a) more room for crew. (b) Longer on the waterline = faster = shorter passages. Guard against the temptation to drag along too much stuff. Given that you have offspring to bring along, it makes sense.
Heating: A bigger boat requires more complex and therefore more vulnerable to failure, systems. Bring lots of warm clothes. WE find that a single burner Origo alcohol heater does us just fine. WE use a 5200 BTU electric heater from West Marine while plugged in at the dock. Another advantage of a small boat.

Solar panels, wind generator: you'll need them at sea and on the hook. Gas gensets=Bad. annoy everybody.

Fuel system: Possibly unnecessary complications. (But I could be wrong)

PC Based navigation: Good for planning, otherwise - Bad. Prone to failure and may give false sense of security. be sure you have complete, up-to-date paper charts and plotting tools and know how to use them. Also have at least one hand held GPS with plenty of spare batteries. Disclosure: I have Garmin software and GPS interface on my PC but I NEVER use it for navigation while under way.

While I'm on a roll (Or rant as it were); Navigation necessities, In my opinion of course, are:

Good quality steering compass.

Another good quality steering compass.

Two or more hand held GPS units. These don't have to be fancy as long as they give you the basic data - lat, long, speed. We have one Garmin GPS76 and two GPS 38s. Total cost about $400. You MUST (In my opinion) have GPS unit(s) that operate independently of the ship's power supply and not too fancy lest yo be tempted to forego real charts.

Depth sounder. Even a lead line. A necessity when anchoring and very helpful when you are sailng where you shouldn't be

Current NOAA or Admiralty paper charts. Expensive but no prudent navigator would think of going to sea without them.

Plotting tools. I use a Jeppeson aviation style rotating plotter/protractor and a Field Artillery plotting square, a 18" steel ruler and a set of traditional brass dividers. #4 pencils don't smear like #2s do. These work for me because I'm used to them and know how to use them. (My life story can come later) I don't like parallel rulers or yachtman's plotters but you might find they suit you. Use what works for you but be damned sure you know how to use the tools that you choose.

Tide and current tables. Paper, not on your laptop. (Again, electronic is OK for planning but it is not a substitute for a book printed on paper)

Good quality binoculars. 7X50

Hand bearing compass.

A good stong hand held spotlight with it's own battery, not one that depends on the ships power.

Log. A device that tells you your speed through the water. Record speed, time and compass heading in your Logbook or deck log at regular intervals to determine your DR position.

Chronometer. Really a good wristwatch will do and I don't mean a Rolex. We each have a Rolex and neither of them keep good enough time for navigation. Any decent quartz watch will be superior. If it has a stopwatch function so much the better.

Logbook. To record our position fixes to facilitate dead (Or ded) reckoning.

Any additional information about your cruising grounds you can get. Charlie's Charts, Wagonners, Yachtsman's chart books, whatever.

Sextant. Eh... not so much. For the price of one cheap sextant you can buy two cheap GPS units that will be far more accurate than any position you can get with a sextant from the deck of a small boat, and by "Small boat" I mean anything under 200 feet on deck. (On Endeavour, 151 ft LOA, the best I could do was a cocked hat ten miles across. My GPS 76 typically gives a position within one boatlength of my Vega27) Bear in mind also that, on our recent Pacific crossing we did not see the sun, let alone moon or stars, for five weeks. Sextant's no good under those conditions Buckwheat. Then there are the tables and almanac you will need along with the sextant. Skip the sextant and buy three handheld GPS units and plenty of batteries with the money you save. Keep a log and fall back on DR in the unlikely event that all three of your GPS units fail.

OK, I admit I have a sextant, and HO 249 and almanac. Mostly I use the sextant turned sideways to take bearings for coastal navigation. Then check my position plot with the GPS.

Whoops! Looks like I got off on a tangent there. Sorry I just thought I had something to say and my fingers went off on their own. Not aimed at anyone in particular you understand. Well, not after I got started on navigation anyway. It's just that I have strong feelings about computer based navigation. All well and good until the batteries go flat or the salt spray gets into the works then it's a dark and stormy night and the laptop won't reboot and that's when the screaming starts. And it's "My mother warned me not to go to sea!", and "What do you MEAN you don't have a satelite phone?!?!?!?" and then it's "What'll we DOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!?!?!?!? and that's when the cat stars wailing and throwing up in your slippers.

Now, If it was me, I would calmly light up a cigar (Punch double corona, maduro, of course), fire up my number two or three GPS unit, verify my DR plot on my paper chart and authoritatively say "Bring in the Jenny and hoist the number 2 jib. Take another reef in the main and lay 'er on the starboard tack at 040."

But that's just me.

Malie ke kai

[tdw]

We'll call her Womboat 1, even though I'd had a couple of other boats before her but she was the first, let's say serious cruising boat in my life. She was a 28' glass sloop basically a copy of a Herreschoff (sp ?) H28. Inexpensive but sound, simple systems, easily handled and maintenance was relatively simple and not a killer financially. The longest periods I spent on her continuously were measured in weeks not months or years and for me their were some insurmountable problems principally in the areas of stowage space and tankage. If all I had wanted her for was to cruise the waters of tropical Oceania she would have been fine for a young bloke by himself but as I yearned to travel to colder climates where one spends more time down below than up top she was simply to tight, particularly when it became two of us. I had to sell her eventualy, mainly because of work commitments and was a non owner for a few years.

Womboat 2, (Silver Raven), the current hole in the water, is a 34' steel sloop. She was bought as a toe back in the water which thankfully has worked out rather well. Stowage space in still a tad limited but the tankage issue is overcome. Systems still pretty simple, more expensive to maintain but certainly not outrageous. Again we've been using her for weeks at a time and in general are quite comfortable but I'm not as young as I once was and find some issues such as getting in and out of a V-berth, when someone else is asleep in same, to be mildly irksome. Again these are problems that are more of a nuisance in cold weather than hot.

Val has summed it up quite well when he speaks of being part of the 'go it alone, anchor out brigade' a club of which we are also aspiring members. While I love being able to pull into waterfront settlements for the odd night of eating out and drinking at the local we want to be able to spend a lot of time out of reach of civilisation, as far as that is possible in this overcrowed world. I do make the point that for us being away from the madding crowds is as much, if not more about 'vanting to be alone' as it to reduce costs.

So we are now looking for Womboat 3 and here I think we need to be damn careful. Our sights are set on 40' and we are very much trying to keep that as a maximum size knowing just how expensive the gear becomes for every extra foot. In fact, not just the cost of the gear but also the handling thereof noting as well that the bigger the boat the more difficult she is to berth, or indeed to find a berth. (by that I mean temporary berth in ports away from home.) I dare say that W3s systems will also be fairly simple compared to what we have seen on new boats as we browse around the odd boatshow. On the other hand she will have a galley that will suffice, an in port bunk that I can get in and out of without the Houdini contortions and a head that is roomy enough for hot showers on a cold day.

Yes I know that for some this is more than is required and for others is still not enough but it does seem to be a good fit for us. What she will cost is still unknown but it will be most certainly a damn sight less than it is possible to spend. I also know that we could find something a bit cheaper than we will probably end up spending and that the cheaper boat would do the job but we have a budget amount set aside that leaves us adequate funds for living expenses and maintenance.

Both of us are big readers and books take up a lot of space, we both like cooking so wish for better galley and pantry so that we can keep enough stores on board to last far longer away than Raven is capable of. If we find ourselves holed up somewhere cold and wet a generous degree of self sufficiency is going to be important.

So that's it. I'm not one to go knocking others whose concepts are different to mine. The folk who bought W1 cruised her far more extensively than I did and where more than happy with her although they have since moved on to something bigger. They made some changes to her living arrangements that suited them and gave them more stowage space than I had on her but in so doing they created a cabin that I would feel hopelessy cramped in. On Raven we have essentially reduced a double quarter cabin into stowage space and a single berth. That takes away the potential for stay aboard guests but that is an extremely low priority for us so no problem. Other people would find 40' too small though I don't neccessarily agree with their conclusions.

ps - I like the thing about the Pardey's bumming tows. So much for engineless cruising .

[Jim H]

I believe you hinted at an interesting view on this topic in the original post: you had already owned your boat for several years and made up your mind about many things.

Sometimes I think it's a mistake for "new" sailors to spend much time online reading about "my new 44 footer" and "I'm so glad we're not smashed in the 28 footer any more." If you took this at face value, it would seem like no one would cruise anywhere on a smaller boat.

It's obvious that only a percentage of cruisers are going to stay with a smaller boat for all of their sailing lives, but that doesn't mean that starting with a smaller boat isn't a bad idea. The best way to find out is to have a cool Vega 27 for a couple of years, and find out.

We were perfectly happy chartering an Islander 28 with two kids aboard, and I think we could have cruised for a month in Puget Sound on her. We did similar trips on our C&C 27, and that affected the "size discussion" of our next boat purchase (a 34 foot) for our growing kids.

Anyway, I think too many of us "over research" boats and should simply buy small to begin (something we can easily afford) with the idea of letting go of it in a year or two if it's not a right fit. The idea of "getting the lifetime boat," especially at the start, is pretty misleading.

Sensible Cruising is a great book, even if it could use an update. (Disclaimer-- I have been pushing my brother to find an Albin Vega for his next boat.)

[Maine Sail]

Fortunately, for my own sanity, I don't worship one author or another and read them all. After over 34+ years on the water I've been lucky enough to find what works for me and I think this is the most important. I've done it both ways, old school and new, and everywhere in between..

From ages 6 through 12 I sailed extensively with my parents and grandparents to places far and wide. Most of this time was spend in old boats with either no or very little electrical systems and usually no propulsion.

We navigated the old fashioned way and used old brass oil lamps as running lights. The decks always leaked and the boat always smelled musty despite exquisite care as they were wood canvas. I grew to both enjoy this simplicity and to hate it.

Fast forward: From ages 12 to 24 I sailed on literally 60-70 different sail boats on deliveries and working as crew and also many different power boats also as either first mate or crew. Many were "fancy" for their day but not by todays standards.

For some strange reason I am always the default mechanical or person folks turn to when systems or equipment fail so I have a fair amount of experience in this department as well.


What I've learned:

I like pressure water but I back it up with foot pumps.

I like GPS/Plotters but always carry two spares and back these up with real charts, compass and DR and off shore a sextant.

I like solar panels and simple battery systems with a battery monitor such as a link 10. I do not like gen sets of any kind including the small Honda's.

I like roller furling and prefer a main sail with a minimum of three reef points.

I like a decent amount of chain on my anchoring system and keep two complete rode sets, beyond my primary, on board.

I don't like electric windlasses. I've fixed far to many thus I now use a manual windlass when and if I ever need it.

I like to have a stereo on board and use an iPod to supply music to it. Properly installed car stereos have worked very well for me and I've never had one fail.

I use radar and prefer a mast mount for performance. Unfortunately I have a stern pole on this boat that I will be converting to a mast mount as soon as I get the chance.

Racing and cruising techniques do work well & blend together well.

I prefer a dry bilge. nuff said

I carry many spares. nuff said

I use a radar reflector.

I don't like metal winch handles and prefer the Titan plastic floating handles.

I don't like 5200 or Silicone and use them very, very carefully.

I don't like exterior teak and I'm far to anal to let it go gray..

I like Tef-Gel, Lanocote, McLube, Boeshield & P.B. Blaster & feel WD-40 is the most overrated product ever produced.

I have davits and like them but NOT in rough weather! They are not however a necessity for me just a luxury.

I like tinned marine grade wire and adhesive lined heat shrink and use it.

I like fuses.

I don't like fancy alternator/regulator systems (had two fail) and prefer a standard large alternator of the maximum size for my belt.

I carry a spare regulator.

I prefer proper sea cocks and AWAB or better hose clamps doubled up.

I like depth sounders but have no use for a speed log.

I like my wind instrument but can do without.

I like my macerator but if going cruising it would be converted to a hand operated pump for reliability.

I like three blade props (reliable) and will never buy a fancy mechanical prop again...

I like ventilation and opening ports.

I like ST winches and rope clutches but would not go out of my way to convert.

I like Gore Stuffing Box Packing & PSS shaft seals.

I don't like computers for navigation and use one for my photography only. Been there tried it went back to a plotter.

I like helm mounted data.

I like nav-pods to keep my instruments dry.

I like a forward facing nav station.

I like at least one proper sea berth.

I like properly placed hand holds below decks.

I like cockpit cushions but they are not a necessity

I like dodgers (won't sail without one) & bimini's (don't want cancer) but they come off in really bad, green water, weather.

I like to eat so a stove/ oven is a necessity

I like to BBQ but have yet to find a good one so we currently don't use one. Could care less really.

I like coffee. Been using Folgers...

I like having a real mattress pad and sheets & custom made a set from a king to fit our berth.

I enjoy hot water but it's not a necessity for me.

I HATE showering in the head (mold) and instead have a cockpit mounted wand..

I like redundant bilge pumps, two electric with one spare and one Whale manual type.

I prefer a keel stepped mast.

I like the safety & stability of inflatable dinghy's and a small 2 stroke. I don't like four strokes (been there done that sold it).

I have an epirb.

I like a good fixed mount