Yanmar hard starting question - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
 Not a Member? 

Diesel This is a forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


Like Tree5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 07-23-2013
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
sailing soon
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 2
mark2gmtrans is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty123 View Post
Good stuff, thanks Mark.
You are more than welcome anytime I can help let me know.
__________________
It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 08-01-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 893
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 9
aa3jy is on a distinguished road
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2gmtrans View Post
As someone with over 25 years of experience in maintaining and repairing diesel engines I recommended the use of Power Service and Lucas Oil Additives, this is because I know a whole lot more about diesel engines than most of you will ever know. These are not "secret sauces" they are tested and proven commercial additives used by companies like J.B. Hunt, Schneider, Swift, Werner, Halliburton, KBR, Nabors, and hundreds of other large companies because it works. Now if you want to listen to someone who is not a diesel mechanic, has zero diesel engines in his shop to be rebuilt, and thinks that most marine diesels do not have glow plugs because he has seen one or two without them, go ahead.

I hate giving advice on here because there will always be some ding a ling who thinks he knows more than someone with literally thousand of hours of training and experience who will come along and tell everyone how the expert and highly trained professional is wrong. I wander if a doctor were telling you that you should take a certain medicine if you wanted to live longer, would you go to a palm reader and take their advice instead? Would you prefer the advice of someone who earns a six figure income because he knows diesel systems, or the advice of a person who sells doughnuts or something for a living?
Here's a response back from Mack Boring in particular Larry Berlin, Service Trainer, when I specifically asked about Lucas additives in Yanmar engines.

I remember he saying from taking one of his classes that additives are not recommended but to make sure there had been no change in their policy I went ahead and asked for clarification on the product mentioned
-------------------------------------------------
Hello Mr. Owen,



Yanmar does not recommend any oil additives.



They recommend you use a high grade 30W or 15W40 viscosity oil that meets

or exceeds API specs of CF4 or higher. Mack Boring follows these recommendations.



Oils meeting these specifications are readily available. Follow the oil change intervals

as given in the operators manual or once a season whichever comes first.



Have a great boating season.





Larry L. Berlin

Training Services

A Division of Mack Boring & Parts Co.

Phone 908-964-0700 ext 298

Fax 908-964-0856

================================================== ======
..Just an FYI..Larry Berlin has probably taught more mechanics as well military personnel in the subject of diesels than most..so I have a great respect for his wisdom...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 08-03-2013
dem45133's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 87
Thanks: 6
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
dem45133 is on a distinguished road
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

Quote:
mark2gmtrans said "As someone with over 25 years of experience in maintaining and repairing diesel engines I recommended the use of Power Service and Lucas Oil Additives, this is because I know a whole lot more about diesel engines than most of you will ever know.
There you go again. Do you just enjoy insulting people, or just tooting your horn to make yourself feel good, or trying to convince yourself you know something? You didn't need to add the "this is because... ", maybe you do, and maybe its applicable, maybe not, but what do you gain by insulting everyone else. Your not the only one that's ever learned things in their lives.

Unless "power service" has changed (could have) it wasn't all that good in treating #2 for cold weather in the mid 80s... but then we were in what most would call severe cold... minus 30s routinely... coldest I've ever operated in was -50. PS was only good to like -20 or something in preventing gel up. What its good for on other properties I do not know. But I will not put in in my cummins. If I have to operate the Cummins in "gel territory" I'll top off with #1.

Personally, I will not run additives in oil or fuels... I've seen them cause issues with seals and linage mostly in the old school engines/systems (which many of our 20 and 30 year old boats fall into BTW). I even had a poly tank that additives somehow caused the poly to dissolve a little and totally implant itself around the fuel pump's intank filter (gasoline Dodge). It restricted the filter's flow to nothing once the fuel level dropped below a filter bypass line that protruding above the filter to about the 1/4 tank level. Took a while to figure out what was happening as above 1/4 tank it ran just fine as the pump could still get fuel.

Today's materials are more tolerant than yesterday's... (which is probably why fleets can get some of the benifits) but there are few substitutes for frequent and complete servicing.

I do know also that marketer's truly push the limits on their claims. We had a second name for our Marketing class back in my college days... its was called "Liars class". 80 or 90% of most of the claims a product will do is exaggerated or only relevant in an extremely small percentile of cases. Take this into account when you read labels... no matter who's product it is.

There are very few or no true magic pills to solve or prevent issues in any engine.

Run a good quality proven virgin oil (I do not trust reclaimed...) changed at 1/2 the manufacturer's suggested interval (I've seen the pan inside my 250,000 mile engines that were still clean enough to eat off of...), yes 1/2 the interval... its cheap insurance. Remember, there are only two reasons engine bearing surfaces wear... cold start limited oil film cushion, and micro fine dirt particulates being circulated with the oil and too small to be trapped by the filter. As time progress the concentration of these micro particles increases... especially in diesels.

Always do regular periodic maintenance on all systems, change out simple things like belts and linage at the first sign of fatigue, way before they fail... do the whole system then not just the one with the most fatigue, the rest are likely not far behind).

I also strongly recommend always installing proper monitoring gauges eyed in a sweep across the gauges every minute or two when operating (once in this habit it only takes a micro second to spot something outside its normal operating range)... its part of good operation of any piece of equipment... your boat's engine is just another piece of equipment designed for a certain duty. Redundancy on oil and temp gauges using different system types (mechanical and electronic) is also a good idea.

I believe Mark2g is mostly trained in modern designs... a lot of our old boats are old school. Keep that in mind. He'll likely deny it though.

Dave
bljones likes this.
__________________
1980 Seafarer Swiftsure 30
1978 Bayliner Buccaneer 270 (now sold and being restored in FL)
1962 SeaMac 14' Plywood Runabout, mahogany decked, with 1959 Evinrude 35 Big Twin (owned since age 17, I'm now 60)

Last edited by dem45133; 08-04-2013 at 07:51 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 08-04-2013
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 95
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 3
arvicola-amphibius is on a distinguished road
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

mark2gmtrans said: "As someone with over 25 years of experience in maintaining and repairing diesel engines I recommended the use of Power Service and Lucas Oil Additives, this is because I know a whole lot more about diesel engines than most of you will ever know".

Hmmm...while not wishing to engage in a urinating contest, it doesn't matter who you are, or what your field of expertise is, there is ALWAYS someone out there who is better, knows more, has more experience, is smarter, whatever.

Intelligent people can read these forums and decide for themselves what is good advice, especially when sources such as manufacturers are quoted.

Perhaps we should all post our formal qualifications, years in our speciality and sailing miles?

I find some of the comments here quite enlightening, some educational and some quite blatantly biased. No prizes for picking the biased......
dem45133 likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 08-04-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,722
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

So Mack Boring suggests API CF-4 or better?

Jeez, the API has only one word to say about that: OBSOLETE!

CJ-4 Current
CI-4 Current
CH-4 Current
CG-4 Obsolete
CF-4 Obsolete
CF-2 Obsolete
CF Obsolete
CE Obsolete
CD-II Obsolete
CD Obsolete
CC Obsolete
CB Obsolete
CA Obsolete

About Engine Oil

If a can (excuse me, bottle) of oil on the shelf today only had a CF-4 rating, I'd snatch it up and sell it on Antiques Roadshow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 08-04-2013
dem45133's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 87
Thanks: 6
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
dem45133 is on a distinguished road
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

That a neat site Hellosailer. I saved down the pdf.

Worth a look if your interested in oils you all. I'd love to get my hands on their test data for the various brands, but I doubt that's possible (and rightfully so).

I've searched the internet for various studies.... I found only three brand based and 1 independent based. In that case it was gear lube I was researching. Funny thing (well actually not so funny)... the brand site tests always showed theirs as the best... of the 8 or 10 they tested. At first I was interested as one was a brand I use... then found two more that said theirs was... so it was meaningless... I just love marketing (NOT)!

Dave
__________________
1980 Seafarer Swiftsure 30
1978 Bayliner Buccaneer 270 (now sold and being restored in FL)
1962 SeaMac 14' Plywood Runabout, mahogany decked, with 1959 Evinrude 35 Big Twin (owned since age 17, I'm now 60)

Last edited by dem45133; 08-04-2013 at 06:22 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 08-05-2013
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
sailing soon
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 2
mark2gmtrans is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa3jy View Post
Here's a response back from Mack Boring in particular Larry Berlin, Service Trainer, when I specifically asked about Lucas additives in Yanmar engines.

I remember he saying from taking one of his classes that additives are not recommended but to make sure there had been no change in their policy I went ahead and asked for clarification on the product mentioned
-------------------------------------------------
Hello Mr. Owen,



Yanmar does not recommend any oil additives.



They recommend you use a high grade 30W or 15W40 viscosity oil that meets

or exceeds API specs of CF4 or higher. Mack Boring follows these recommendations.



Oils meeting these specifications are readily available. Follow the oil change intervals

as given in the operators manual or once a season whichever comes first.



Have a great boating season.





Larry L. Berlin

Training Services

A Division of Mack Boring & Parts Co.

Phone 908-964-0700 ext 298

Fax 908-964-0856

================================================== ======
..Just an FYI..Larry Berlin has probably taught more mechanics as well military personnel in the subject of diesels than most..so I have a great respect for his wisdom...
I am sure Larry has taught a lot of classes, and he knows a lot about engines. I am kind of wondering what he knows about oils though. I was gone for a few days, but others already beat me to it, the type of oil he is listing is not available. You can find oil that exceeds the standard, but oil has changed a lot over the years and like I said before, I recommend Lucas Larry is more than welcome to recommend oil that is obsolete, impossible to find, and not produced today. I just buy Rotella for diesels and add Lucas to help keep the oil where I want it, you can do what you want to do with your engines.

I know there are people with a LOT more experience than I have, just like I have a LOT more than most people do, but I give my opinion based on my experience. I get a lot people who seem to think that my being in Texas or my being a full time oilfield mechanic working on both old and new engines somehow translates to my not knowing my stuff well enough to work on a 1975 model engine. Fine, I have too much work as it is, and have had since I was a kid, take your engine to someone else, get your free advice from someone else or not, it makes me know difference at all.

I have my own engines to work on too, and I am trying to get time to do them, but it seems that other people's engines keep getting in my shop and I do not have the time or the room to do any more than I am right now.

My brother told me once not too long ago that the reason he never gives out free advice and consultation is that the people asking are just going to argue, and not do what you advised them to do anyway, so why waste the time? He is certified with Cummins, Mack, Caterpillar, Detroit, Perkins, and a couple of others as well as Allison, Eaton, and some of the others, and together we have done a few mechanic jobs over the years, but no one wants to listen to the things people getting paid to do the work have to say. Instead they go around until they can find someone who agrees with them.
__________________
It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 08-05-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,722
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

Mr. Owen The man at Mack Boring works for a corporation, and there's a high probability that corporate counsel, or someone in the corporation, has decided to Cover Thine Ass in this litigious society by recommending what the manufacturer recommended in their original and normally unrevised manual. So if his recommendation is for a product that's been obsolete for a decade and is no longer the best choice for engineering purposes, he probably knows that. And for liability, rather than engineering, reasons, that's the story he'll stick to.

That's sadly normal corporate "technical" support these days, has been for a long time.

Cover Thine Ass.

Last edited by hellosailor; 08-05-2013 at 01:50 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 08-05-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 893
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 9
aa3jy is on a distinguished road
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Mr. Owen works for a corporation, and there's a high probability that corporate counsel, or someone in the corporation, has decided to Cover Thine Ass in this litigious society by recommending what the manufacturer recommended in their original and normally unrevised manual. So if his recommendation is for a product that's been obsolete for a decade and is no longer the best choice for engineering purposes, he probably knows that. And for liability, rather than engineering, reasons, that's the story he'll stick to.

That's sadly normal corporate "technical" support these days, has been for a long time.

Cover Thine Ass.
Oh?..and what "corporation" do I work for...or..are you just trolling?

Clay Owen aa3jy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 08-05-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,722
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Yanmar hard starting question

My apologies, Clay. I read an earlier post as "Mr. Owen" bring the man at Mack Boring. I'll go back and edit my post to correct that.

I don't troll. Even for fish.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
6 HP Tohatsu hard starting dabnis Gear & Maintenance 20 03-14-2013 07:03 PM
Yanmar YQM15 - hard starting Rusty123 Diesel 15 11-29-2012 10:47 AM
3GM yanmar hard starting sailor5017 Diesel 3 04-07-2011 08:41 AM
Yanmar starting question nk235 Gear & Maintenance 29 04-19-2009 06:35 PM
Hard Warm Starting Yanmar ysm8 mhfowle Gear & Maintenance 7 12-20-2006 01:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:17 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.