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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
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Diesel This is a new forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


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Old 07-27-2013
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Conversion to oil as coolant?

I am in the process of swapping in a refreshed Farymann S30 into a 1980 Seafarer 30. It will increase the available hp for rough seas and run slower at hull speed with an appropriate prop. The 8 hp single cyl is simple underpowered for a 10000 lb boat in my opinion. It will fit and I do not care about a couple hundred lbs of additional weight.

This boat will overwinter at home and at the very least I am going to install a heat exchanger and run a closed loop cooling system using convention 50/50 antifreeze. The heat exchanger will be designed and installed so as to self drain everytime the boat is pulled.

However, I am wondering on using an oil for the coolant similar to the Duetz industrial engines. I can envision several advantages to the use of an oil coolant. I doubt the heat exchanger will care.

Have any of you seen any data or information on such a conversion? looking for information.

Thanks...
Dave
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1978 Bayliner Buccaneer 270 (now sold and being restored in FL)
1962 SeaMac 14' Plywood Runabout, mahogany decked, with 1959 Evinrude 35 Big Twin (owned since age 17, I'm now 60)
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Old 07-27-2013
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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

I have read that anti freeze run at full strength will not dissipate heat as well as 50% mix and is not recommended. I would think that oil would have the same problem? If you had a very big heat exchanger it might work. Can't think of why oil would be better than 50% anti freeze?

Paul T
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Old 07-27-2013
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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

What are the imagined benefits of oil over antifreeze? Also, why would you drain a closed loop system every time you come out of the water?

By closed loop, are you talking about using a keel cooler and dry exhaust?

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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

antifreze water mix at 50 50 is for lowest freezing point.
I have never seen specs on thermal retention for percentage mix.
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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by desert rat View Post
antifreze water mix at 50 50 is for lowest freezing point.
I have never seen specs on thermal retention for percentage mix.
Well... let's look them up!

For starters, water has the highest specific heat capacity of any non-exotic substance. Specific heat capacity, by the way, is the amount of heat required to increase the temperature of a substance.

Water and antifreeze mixes are less efficient then pure water at transferring heat away from your engine, but the higher boiling point, lower freezing point, and the additives that prevent galvanic action are what people are after when they use them.

Seems to me that if you use oil, you've got something potentially flammable in your cooling circuit. (I've had my coolant boil before) You are missing out on your galvanic protection, and since the specific heat capacity is about 1/2 of water/antifreeze mix, you'd need to beef up the cooling system.

What was the advantage again?

Liquids and Fluids - Specific Heats

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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by desert rat View Post
antifreze water mix at 50 50 is for lowest freezing point.
I have never seen specs on thermal retention for percentage mix.
"As such, it's best not to mix antifreeze types unless absolutely necessary. All coolants must be diluted with water at the proper ratios and should not be used full-strength. Full-strength antifreeze actually has a lower freeze point than when mixed with water. "

Antifreeze / Coolant

Paul T
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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

Aircooled Porsche's are actually oilcooled.. even though they claim air. All the big ran on top does is keep the cylinders cool.

Due to their reliance on oil as a coolant, they typically run 10 or so (it's been 20 years since I owned a 911) quarts of oil..
So yes, you -can- run oil as a cooling medium, but you are going to have to run a lot more of it to evacuate the heat from your engine.

You could be better off with something like this: Home » Engine Cooling Systems
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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

Engine is designed for "water" cooling. Water pump and impeller is designed to run in "water". So what do you gain by using oil?

Car transmissions use transmission fluid, which is basically oil, and run it to the standard radiator for cooling. Or air cool it with another set of coils. So what you want to do is not unusual, but why make life harder?

If you run oil into a heat exchanger and there is a leak, now you've got a stiff penalty for pollution when the oil gets out. Cooling? What's the oil going to do better? Maintenance? There are "permanent" antifreezes, used with compatible gaskets and adding some water pump lubricant annually, no big deal there either.

KISS.

Unless you can figure out something the oil will do better, cheaper, and faster.
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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

Hummm. lots of replies in a short time. Thanks.

Advantages... well actually over a 50/50 maybe not as much as I was first thinking... too many raw water cooled and corrosion and plugging issues in my past that a 50/50 and heat exchanger wouldn't have now that I think about it although the raw water side of the exchanger would still have those issues... just less costly and easier to fix than an engine.

Exhaust will be cooled via the discharge of the raw water coming from the heat exchanger as is normal... I'd just like to have the exchanger's raw water jacket self drain upon pulling... one less thing to prep for winter. I'd like the configure the exhuast system to do the same if possible. May not be able to.

Only reason I wondered is I have a 4 cyl Deutz 2011 (about 50 hp) that is oil cooled and sitting in the shop waiting for me to do something with (I need to custom build a special sleeve for one cylinder due to it swallowing a valve). Got the whole complete engine for 75 bucks so I took a chance I could repair it. Not sure what I'll do with it, but I'll think of something on this place it can do.

Not sure what their assumed advantage is, but Duetz charges a premium for their oil cooled engines. They circulate the lube oil through the cylinder and head cooling jackets and then through a what in essence is a very large conventional oil cooler using air as the ambient medium (like a radiator). Since these are hard working industrial engines designed to work at 90% capacity and periods at 100% 24/7 it has the benefit of cooling the oil too (hard working engines can get pretty high oil temps in continuous operation). Maybe its only advantage is one cooling system and not a radiator and oil cooler both being cooled by the same air (a common problem on all our vehicles too BTW). I think Duetz is just drawing out of the oil pan for the cooing system and not connected with the lube pressure system direct... they'd have to do it like this due to flow and pressure differences between the two systems I believe.

Flamability?... actually there are non-flamable oils... but heck diesel is burnable but not classified "flammable" in the true sense as it takes quite a bit to ignite it (high vapor point, low vapor presure).

For long cruises under power in a marine installation it is a continuous work application... maybe not at 90%, but for sure at 80% continuous if propped right and not quite full throttle in cruise mode... so it made me wonder. Doesn't matter if its 26 hp or 2600 hp, temp control needs are still there.

I'm doing the swap this summer, so now is the time to think through any system changes.

Dave
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1978 Bayliner Buccaneer 270 (now sold and being restored in FL)
1962 SeaMac 14' Plywood Runabout, mahogany decked, with 1959 Evinrude 35 Big Twin (owned since age 17, I'm now 60)

Last edited by dem45133; 07-28-2013 at 03:39 PM.
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Re: Conversion to oil as coolant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
"As such, it's best not to mix antifreeze types unless absolutely necessary. All coolants must be diluted with water at the proper ratios and should not be used full-strength. Full-strength antifreeze actually has a lower freeze point than when mixed with water. "

Antifreeze / Coolant

Paul T
Thanks Paul, but your statement above is at least not what it used to be with normal ethylene glycol. I am from N. Wisconsin (Eagle River) and a straight 50/50 is only good to 34 below 0 F and will slush before then even. We'd get down to 40 or 45 below F most winters now and then and had to run a 65% EG: 35% H2O mix to keep from slushing. While slush does not freeze hard to do damage, it doesn't pump or circulate and you will over heat. Didn't matter if there was 3 ft of snow and 45 below... all vehicles still had to start and go down the road to work. Not showing for work because of snow or cold was a fire-able offense back then... one just set up for it and lived it. Winter wasn't going away any time soon.

Full strength has a boiling point of 260 and a freeze point of -60... I just looked at a jug of it.

Dave
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1978 Bayliner Buccaneer 270 (now sold and being restored in FL)
1962 SeaMac 14' Plywood Runabout, mahogany decked, with 1959 Evinrude 35 Big Twin (owned since age 17, I'm now 60)

Last edited by dem45133; 07-27-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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