Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions... - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
 Not a Member? 

Diesel This is a new forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By MedSailor
  • 1 Post By svHyLyte
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-27-2013
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,461
Thanks: 71
Thanked 51 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

My perkins 4.108 has been getting more and more warm blooded. Last week I installed an oil pan heater, and we'll see if that works.

I was also thinking of wiring up the "Flame thrower" that is in my air intake. Problem is, I would also like to install a poor man's Airsep by installing a "puke bottle" (as described at boatdeisel.com) and a K&N air filter.

My question is, will my flame thrower, plus the K&N filter (instead of the metal one) cause my boat be immolated?



MedSailor
zeehag likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-27-2013
aeventyr60's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Andaman Sea
Posts: 1,479
Thanks: 5
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 4
aeventyr60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Probably, but no worries, we can all come over for a wienie roast. Maybe you can supply the marshmellows?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



"Your dreams minus your doubts equals your net worth"

Life is a short journey, filled with emptiness and pain. Get all the sailing and booty you can.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-27-2013
svHyLyte's Avatar
Old as Dirt!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,636
Thanks: 11
Thanked 99 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 6
svHyLyte is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
My perkins 4.108 has been getting more and more warm blooded. Last week I installed an oil pan heater, and we'll see if that works.

I was also thinking of wiring up the "Flame thrower" that is in my air intake. Problem is, I would also like to install a poor man's Airsep by installing a "puke bottle" (as described at boatdeisel.com) and a K&N air filter.

My question is, will my flame thrower, plus the K&N filter (instead of the metal one) cause my boat be immolated?

MedSailor
The Perkins pre-heater, i.e. flame start, really isn't necessary or particularly useful unless you are operating the yacht in extremely cold weather, i.e. at temps well below freezing. Even then, it only generates a flame for a few seconds, that pre-heats the induction air, but is very rapidly sucked into the combustion chambers as the engine starts and runs. The KN Air filter material is rated for 500ļ exposure, although it would/could only be exposed to that for a very few seconds but, again, do you really plan on sailing/using your engine in sub-freezing temperatures?
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-27-2013
zeehag's Avatar
snake charmer, cat herder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: refitting a formosa in exotic tropical locations....
Posts: 1,641
Thanks: 4
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
Rep Power: 6
zeehag is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

looks as if that pre flame thrower warming thingie is excellent for tropical insect infestations and bandidos....
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

formosa 41 and ericson 35mII
cruising tropical mexico at present, working my way southward



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 07-27-2013
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,461
Thanks: 71
Thanked 51 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
The Perkins pre-heater, i.e. flame start, really isn't necessary or particularly useful unless you are operating the yacht in extremely cold weather, i.e. at temps well below freezing. ... again, do you really plan on sailing/using your engine in sub-freezing temperatures?
Actually, my engine requires 20 seconds of cranking to start at 55F and it takes more like 60 seconds of cranking (crank, rest, crank, rest, repeat) if the temp is 40F or below.

I was thinking of using the pre-heater thingy quite often actually. I know this means I've got another issue, but when I asked the local diesel mech about it, he told me just to use a pre-heater...

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-27-2013
aeventyr60's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Andaman Sea
Posts: 1,479
Thanks: 5
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 4
aeventyr60 is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Sounds like the compression is getting low....I wintered over in Alaska and then down on the South Island in New Zealand, only had the glow plugs. What weight engine oil are you using? Full charge on the batteries? Has the pre heater/block heater helped at all?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



"Your dreams minus your doubts equals your net worth"

Life is a short journey, filled with emptiness and pain. Get all the sailing and booty you can.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-28-2013
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,461
Thanks: 71
Thanked 51 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
Sounds like the compression is getting low....I wintered over in Alaska and then down on the South Island in New Zealand, only had the glow plugs. What weight engine oil are you using? Full charge on the batteries? Has the pre heater/block heater helped at all?
I'm thinking injectors myself. If the compression was low, due to ring wear, wouldn't I be getting some blue smoke? Currently the exhaust is clear.

Battery is at a full charge, and as part of troubleshooting I made some new 2/0 battery cables and replaced them. I haven't pulled the starter itself, but I don't think that's the problem.

Oil is the same as I've always used. Chevron Delo 400 SAE 30.

I'll let you know about the block heater. I've only tried it once, and it was a hot day. It's pretty neat though, it gets REALLY hot. I used the 250W 12V version.

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 07-28-2013
svHyLyte's Avatar
Old as Dirt!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,636
Thanks: 11
Thanked 99 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 6
svHyLyte is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Actually, my engine requires 20 seconds of cranking to start at 55F and it takes more like 60 seconds of cranking (crank, rest, crank, rest, repeat) if the temp is 40F or below.

I was thinking of using the pre-heater thingy quite often actually. I know this means I've got another issue, but when I asked the local diesel mech about it, he told me just to use a pre-heater...

MedSailor
As I assume you know, the flame start system works by one activating a glow-plug in the throat of the air intake assembly that heats a tiny dribble of fuel to the point at which it ignites. If one listens closely, one can actually hear the sound of the fuel igniting at which point one turns the key all the way to the start position and, presumably, starts the engine within a few revs. In the second or so before hitting the start position, I have learned there really is a pretty good/impressive flame. While Perkin's original air intake cover assembly (mushroom) can handle that easily, and KN's filter can supposedly handle very short exposures, I, personally, would not switch to the KN filter considering the possibility of difficulty and the prospective consequences. Frankly, it might be wise to have your injectors tested and, if needed, repaired which, in the grand scheme isn't all that costly. Note that either a tractor repair shop or a good truck repair shop will likely cost a good deal less for the work than a "marine diesel repair" shop, or at least that is what we have found. In any case, good luck with your efforts.

FWIW...
TQA likes this.
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to svHyLyte For This Useful Post:
MedSailor (07-28-2013)
  #9  
Old 07-28-2013
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,461
Thanks: 71
Thanked 51 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
As I assume you know, the flame start system works by one activating a glow-plug in the throat of the air intake assembly that heats a tiny dribble of fuel to the point at which it ignites. If one listens closely, one can actually hear the sound of the fuel igniting at which point one turns the key all the way to the start position and, presumably, starts the engine within a few revs. In the second or so before hitting the start position, I have learned there really is a pretty good/impressive flame. While Perkin's original air intake cover assembly (mushroom) can handle that easily, and KN's filter can supposedly handle very short exposures, I, personally, would not switch to the KN filter considering the possibility of difficulty and the prospective consequences. Frankly, it might be wise to have your injectors tested and, if needed, repaired which, in the grand scheme isn't all that costly. Note that either a tractor repair shop or a good truck repair shop will likely cost a good deal less for the work than a "marine diesel repair" shop, or at least that is what we have found. In any case, good luck with your efforts.

FWIW...
On the first part, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Not even sure why I'm considering it really. Paper + Fire + Fuel + Engine room..... probably not a great idea.

Thanks for the second tip! That's actually a great idea that I hadn't thought of! I live in a farming area and there are lots of tractors around, so it shouldn't be a problem to find a repair shop.

BTW, one thing I never could figure out about the Perkins 4.108. They recommend reconditioning the injectors every 400hours. That seems like a REALLY short interval for a supposedly bulletproof/reliable engine!

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
flame arrestor atomic-4 jobi Atomic 4 5 01-19-2011 03:31 PM
Any recommendations on a AGM starter battery for a 4 -108 Perkins? SanDiegoChip Gear & Maintenance 9 02-23-2010 10:55 AM
Perkins 107 starter removal bsfree Gear & Maintenance 4 07-07-2007 05:04 PM
perkins 4-108 questions pdxsailor General Discussion (sailing related) 9 05-11-2007 09:36 AM
yellow flame karlwestman Pacific Seacraft 1 09-06-2006 12:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.