Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions... - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-27-2013 Thread Starter
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Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

My perkins 4.108 has been getting more and more warm blooded. Last week I installed an oil pan heater, and we'll see if that works.

I was also thinking of wiring up the "Flame thrower" that is in my air intake. Problem is, I would also like to install a poor man's Airsep by installing a "puke bottle" (as described at boatdeisel.com) and a K&N air filter.

My question is, will my flame thrower, plus the K&N filter (instead of the metal one) cause my boat be immolated?



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post #2 of 9 Old 07-27-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Probably, but no worries, we can all come over for a wienie roast. Maybe you can supply the marshmellows?


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post #3 of 9 Old 07-27-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

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Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
My perkins 4.108 has been getting more and more warm blooded. Last week I installed an oil pan heater, and we'll see if that works.

I was also thinking of wiring up the "Flame thrower" that is in my air intake. Problem is, I would also like to install a poor man's Airsep by installing a "puke bottle" (as described at boatdeisel.com) and a K&N air filter.

My question is, will my flame thrower, plus the K&N filter (instead of the metal one) cause my boat be immolated?

MedSailor
The Perkins pre-heater, i.e. flame start, really isn't necessary or particularly useful unless you are operating the yacht in extremely cold weather, i.e. at temps well below freezing. Even then, it only generates a flame for a few seconds, that pre-heats the induction air, but is very rapidly sucked into the combustion chambers as the engine starts and runs. The KN Air filter material is rated for 500 exposure, although it would/could only be exposed to that for a very few seconds but, again, do you really plan on sailing/using your engine in sub-freezing temperatures?

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post #4 of 9 Old 07-27-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

looks as if that pre flame thrower warming thingie is excellent for tropical insect infestations and bandidos....


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post #5 of 9 Old 07-27-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

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The Perkins pre-heater, i.e. flame start, really isn't necessary or particularly useful unless you are operating the yacht in extremely cold weather, i.e. at temps well below freezing. ... again, do you really plan on sailing/using your engine in sub-freezing temperatures?
Actually, my engine requires 20 seconds of cranking to start at 55F and it takes more like 60 seconds of cranking (crank, rest, crank, rest, repeat) if the temp is 40F or below.

I was thinking of using the pre-heater thingy quite often actually. I know this means I've got another issue, but when I asked the local diesel mech about it, he told me just to use a pre-heater...

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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

Sounds like the compression is getting low....I wintered over in Alaska and then down on the South Island in New Zealand, only had the glow plugs. What weight engine oil are you using? Full charge on the batteries? Has the pre heater/block heater helped at all?


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post #7 of 9 Old 07-28-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

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Sounds like the compression is getting low....I wintered over in Alaska and then down on the South Island in New Zealand, only had the glow plugs. What weight engine oil are you using? Full charge on the batteries? Has the pre heater/block heater helped at all?
I'm thinking injectors myself. If the compression was low, due to ring wear, wouldn't I be getting some blue smoke? Currently the exhaust is clear.

Battery is at a full charge, and as part of troubleshooting I made some new 2/0 battery cables and replaced them. I haven't pulled the starter itself, but I don't think that's the problem.

Oil is the same as I've always used. Chevron Delo 400 SAE 30.

I'll let you know about the block heater. I've only tried it once, and it was a hot day. It's pretty neat though, it gets REALLY hot. I used the 250W 12V version.

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post #8 of 9 Old 07-28-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

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Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Actually, my engine requires 20 seconds of cranking to start at 55F and it takes more like 60 seconds of cranking (crank, rest, crank, rest, repeat) if the temp is 40F or below.

I was thinking of using the pre-heater thingy quite often actually. I know this means I've got another issue, but when I asked the local diesel mech about it, he told me just to use a pre-heater...

MedSailor
As I assume you know, the flame start system works by one activating a glow-plug in the throat of the air intake assembly that heats a tiny dribble of fuel to the point at which it ignites. If one listens closely, one can actually hear the sound of the fuel igniting at which point one turns the key all the way to the start position and, presumably, starts the engine within a few revs. In the second or so before hitting the start position, I have learned there really is a pretty good/impressive flame. While Perkin's original air intake cover assembly (mushroom) can handle that easily, and KN's filter can supposedly handle very short exposures, I, personally, would not switch to the KN filter considering the possibility of difficulty and the prospective consequences. Frankly, it might be wise to have your injectors tested and, if needed, repaired which, in the grand scheme isn't all that costly. Note that either a tractor repair shop or a good truck repair shop will likely cost a good deal less for the work than a "marine diesel repair" shop, or at least that is what we have found. In any case, good luck with your efforts.

FWIW...
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Re: Perkins 4.108 flame starter questions...

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
As I assume you know, the flame start system works by one activating a glow-plug in the throat of the air intake assembly that heats a tiny dribble of fuel to the point at which it ignites. If one listens closely, one can actually hear the sound of the fuel igniting at which point one turns the key all the way to the start position and, presumably, starts the engine within a few revs. In the second or so before hitting the start position, I have learned there really is a pretty good/impressive flame. While Perkin's original air intake cover assembly (mushroom) can handle that easily, and KN's filter can supposedly handle very short exposures, I, personally, would not switch to the KN filter considering the possibility of difficulty and the prospective consequences. Frankly, it might be wise to have your injectors tested and, if needed, repaired which, in the grand scheme isn't all that costly. Note that either a tractor repair shop or a good truck repair shop will likely cost a good deal less for the work than a "marine diesel repair" shop, or at least that is what we have found. In any case, good luck with your efforts.

FWIW...
On the first part, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Not even sure why I'm considering it really. Paper + Fire + Fuel + Engine room..... probably not a great idea.

Thanks for the second tip! That's actually a great idea that I hadn't thought of! I live in a farming area and there are lots of tractors around, so it shouldn't be a problem to find a repair shop.

BTW, one thing I never could figure out about the Perkins 4.108. They recommend reconditioning the injectors every 400hours. That seems like a REALLY short interval for a supposedly bulletproof/reliable engine!

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