Fuel System and ABYC Standards - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
 Not a Member? 
  #11  
Old 12-09-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,071
Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
I don't think it makes the boat illegal to operate as ABYC is not a legal requirement though your insurance company would likely be unhappily. Many insurance policies require meeting ABYC for modifications and might ask for some systems to be brought up to the standard though some may not.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk
See... 46 CRF 182.130 below. This applies to non-commercial small boats as well as commercial. Though inspection isn't required.




Title 46: Shipping

CHAPTER I: COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)

SUBCHAPTER T: SMALL PASSENGER VESSELS (UNDER 100 GROSS TONS)

PART 182: MACHINERY INSTALLATION

Subpart A: General Provisions

182.130 - Alternative standards.

As an alternative to complying with the provisions of this part, a vessel of not more than 19.8 meters (65 feet) in length, carrying not more than 12 passengers, and propelled by gasoline or diesel internal combustion engines, other than a High Speed Craft, may comply with ABYC H-2, ABYC H-22, ABYC H-24, ABYC H-25, ABYC H-32, ABYC H-33, ABYC P-1, and ABYC P-4 (all eight standards incorporated by reference, see 46 CFR 175.600) as specified in this part.

[USCG-2003-16630, 73 FR 65207, Oct. 31, 2008]
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 12-10-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,071
Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

For what it's worth I finally got a reply from someone who was on the ABYC fuel system committee from the mid 90's to 2004. His reply was basically that the USCG prohibited stainless years ago in keeping with ABYC requirements. Once the USCG adopted the rules it has become almost impossible to change them, since the ABYC cannot permit that which the law prohibits.

Apparently rewriting this was looked at, but there were still not a consensus that stainless as a fuel line was safe, due to concerns over crevice corrosion, work hardening, cracking at the fittings, and galvanic corrosion. Though there seems to be plenty of evidence these concerns are minor.

In short, there doesn't seen to be a clear engineering prohibition, just a legal one. But that legal one does effect recreational boats.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 12-11-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
nsweeting is on a distinguished road
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
For what it's worth I finally got a reply from someone who was on the ABYC fuel system committee from the mid 90's to 2004. His reply was basically that the USCG prohibited stainless years ago in keeping with ABYC requirements. Once the USCG adopted the rules it has become almost impossible to change them, since the ABYC cannot permit that which the law prohibits.

Apparently rewriting this was looked at, but there were still not a consensus that stainless as a fuel line was safe, due to concerns over crevice corrosion, work hardening, cracking at the fittings, and galvanic corrosion. Though there seems to be plenty of evidence these concerns are minor.

In short, there doesn't seen to be a clear engineering prohibition, just a legal one. But that legal one does effect recreational boats.
Thanks for your time and effort in tracking down this info.

Are you able to provide a little more insight and explanation into the whole sub system point you made? With the filterboss, the filters are used as your primary filters, so it is very much a part of the regular fuel route. But it can also be used as a polishing system.

Cheers
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 12-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,071
Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

Basically this rule only effects the delivery lines. But it doesn't effect fittings, or subsystems. So from the tank to the racor, from the racor to the engine, and any transfer lines between tanks. Once it gets to the engine you can use stainless, fittings, high preasure lines, ect.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 12-11-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
nsweeting is on a distinguished road
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

Just to clarify -

I was reviewing the USCG Boatbuilders Hanbook which references Title 33 CFR Part 183 Subpart J for its fuel requirements. The very first line mentions that these are the requirements for gasoline powered inboards. So am I to understand the rule regarding the fuel lines does not apply to our diesel engines then?

First sentence in the below link:

Fuel Systems - Introduction

Edit:

I also found the actual regulation which also states the laws are applicable to gas inboards - under the Applicability section.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title33/33...:2.0.1.8.44.10

Last edited by nsweeting; 12-11-2013 at 03:52 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 12-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,071
Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

183 is a standard for gas engines
182 incorporates the ABYC rules.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 12-11-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,873
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 98 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

My limited understanding is that the sulphur traditionally found in diesel fuels, attacks stainless steel and makes stainless unsuitable for diesel systems.

Granted that two "new" reductions in sulphur content have happened in recent times, it is possible that the recommendation excluding stainless is just a legacy issue and now a moot point for US vessels.

I don't see work hardening as being an issue, that affects copper lines much more than stainless, and is the reason why copper lines are forbidden in automotive brake systems--where stainless is the standard metal, constantly being hit by expansions and still not work hardening at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 12-17-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
FiveFilter is on a distinguished road
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

I have seen several sources indicating that one should not allow copper, zink or any compound containing them (brass) to come into contact with diesel.

If this is correct, how does this affect the fuel system standards being quoted in this thread when one is operating with diesel as a fuel?

I have some brass fittings in my diesel fuel system and always wonder if I'm hurting my engine. Not so far.

Any comments?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 12-17-2013
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,282
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Re: Fuel System and ABYC Standards

Brass is ok as far as I know but do not attach brass fittings to an aluminum tank.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air in fuel system Romario Diesel 18 09-16-2013 12:02 PM
2QM15 Fuel System Need Help Lanky55 General Discussion (sailing related) 7 09-10-2012 01:44 PM
2QM15 Fuel System Need Help Lanky55 Gear & Maintenance 0 09-07-2012 01:20 PM
fuel filter system.. groundhog Gear & Maintenance 7 08-20-2008 01:14 PM
Scott Stephens does ABYC proud - 2006 Optimist Selections - Day 7, the FINAL Day @ ABYC, Port Elizabeth, South Africa NewsReader News Feeds 0 04-13-2006 08:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.