About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
 Not a Member? 

Diesel This is a new forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


Like Tree42Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-31-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
planetminder is on a distinguished road
About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

So we're about to pull the trigger on an awesome 38' ketch with a freshly rebuilt (1.5hrs) Westerbeke 40 (really just a perkins 4-108), but there was a issue with engine that came up during the sea trial that's been nagging me. The day before the sea trial, the owner had come to the boat to show us some things, including starting the engine. It was about 45 degrees out, after being around freezing the previous night. The engine started immediately, with hardly any cranking, then ran perfectly, with no smoke. We ran it for about 20 mins, so it got up to temp. But the next day, we couldn't get it started for the sea trial (the owner wasn't there) after quite a bit of cranking. We called the owner, and he said to just give it a little spray of ether. I was pretty shocked at that, and so was the surveyor - seems to me a fresh rebuild shouldn't need ether. But we gave it a bit, and of course it started right up, and ran perfectly thru the sea trial, no smoke, no overheating.
The next day, it wasn't starting again, but I discovered the pre-heater (duh), and used it for about 30 secs, and was able to get it started after 10-15 secs of cranking. (also - and I don't know if it's related - that morning I fixed a small drip fuel leak at a fuel pressure sensor. ) I ran it for about 10 mins, then shut it down for about 2 hrs, and then tried it again, and it took some pre-heat and about 5 secs of cranking.
So my question, is this normal for a freshly rebuilt Perkins in cold weather? Should I be concerned enough to hold up the sale and get a compression test ? The boat isn't nearby, so I can't do any troubleshooting.
Thanks!
David
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 03-31-2014
erps's Avatar
the pointy end is the bow
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Conner, Washington
Posts: 6,112
Thanks: 2
Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 10
erps will become famous soon enough erps will become famous soon enough
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

We had a brand new Volkswagon with a diesel in it in 1980. Even with a brand new motor, the motor wouldn't start unless you ran the glow plugs for the set time. So you can't necessarily determine that an engine is worn out because of slow cold starts, especially if you don't know how long to use the glow plugs and where to set the throttle.

If it were me, I would want to see the paperwork for the engine work to determine whether it was a spray paint rebuild or whether they actually replaced piston rings and bearings. You might even be able to call the mechanic who did the work for ask him some specific questions on what he found.

Also, you can have the compression check done as part of the survey after the initial offer and if it doesn't meet your expectations you can cancel the sale or renegotiate the price.
bljones likes this.
__________________
Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Boating for over 25 years, some of them successfully.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 03-31-2014
MikeOReilly's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 1,031
Thanks: 93
Thanked 41 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 5
MikeOReilly is on a distinguished road
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

Our Westerbeke 40/Perkin 4108 has ~1000 hrs since its last rebuild. It does not like cold starts. Sometimes it can take 10 to 15 seconds of cranking (on rare occasions two or three cranking attempts). This is especially true if it's been siting in cold water for a long time, or when first starting in the Spring, and especially if I've forgotten to use the pre-heater.

Otherwise our engine works perfectly well. Starts fine when used regularly, even when sitting in our cold Lake Superior water. I'm no where near a diesel expert. I would be cautious, and have the engine checked by a mechanic if you have any doubts. But in my experience, our engine struggles with cold starts. Always has started though, and ours performs flawlessly (so far).
christian.hess likes this.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to MikeOReilly For This Useful Post:
planetminder (03-31-2014)
  #4  
Old 03-31-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
planetminder is on a distinguished road
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

thanks...funny you mention VW diesels, as it's with them that most of my diesel experience lies. And you're right - every 80's VW diesel I've had *required* the glow plugs when cold, even with new rings.
The rebuild was done by the owner, under the supervision of an aviation mechanic. It was a complete rebuild down to the bottom, and I have pretty good confidence in his ability.
David
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 03-31-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
planetminder is on a distinguished road
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

Mike, thanks, that's encouraging. It occurs to me, though, that a spare starter would be a good thing to carry, esp. in colder climates. All that grinding away can't be good for it.
David
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 03-31-2014
Wonderinlost's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jersey
Posts: 41
Thanks: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Wonderinlost is on a distinguished road
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

Is it cranking slow? With a fresh rebuild and more compression could be a culprit. Check strter draw if its getting weak. Test the battery at a shop for avaible apms plus imepentcy (if thats right spelling) if battery is weak. Next id think if its a fuel issue causing a longer crank time. Seeping check valve in the fuel system or a small leak somewhere. With lack of smoke while running I would not suspect injectors as of yet. If issues on a warm block to I may lean more on the fuel system.

wondering around with no destionation
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 03-31-2014
MikeOReilly's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 1,031
Thanks: 93
Thanked 41 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 5
MikeOReilly is on a distinguished road
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetminder View Post
Mike, thanks, that's encouraging. It occurs to me, though, that a spare starter would be a good thing to carry, esp. in colder climates. All that grinding away can't be good for it.
David
Probably a good idea to carry a spare in any case. Our engine is a replacement, and they squeezed the whole thing in such that I can't get to my starter with any ease. Leaves me worried. But so far our starter has withstood all the abuse we've thrown it at it (including getting stuck in the engaged mode for a few of minutes).

I wouldn't hesitate to have the engine surveyed by a diesel mechanic if you can. But my experience is that our engine doesn't like the cold. Otherwise has been fine (so far).
christian.hess likes this.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 03-31-2014
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,022
Thanks: 26
Thanked 62 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 5
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetminder View Post
Should I be concerned enough to hold up the sale and get a compression test ? The boat isn't nearby, so I can't do any troubleshooting.
Thanks!
David
Yes, if you have any doubts, have a marine diesel mechanic take a look at it.
zeehag likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 03-31-2014
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,504
Thanks: 4
Thanked 83 Times in 76 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

Nigel Caulder recommends using Wd40 instead of Ether on diesel engines as a starting fluid. Much less likely to fustercluck.
zeehag and Wonderinlost like this.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by CalebD; 03-31-2014 at 04:36 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 03-31-2014
Wonderinlost's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jersey
Posts: 41
Thanks: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Wonderinlost is on a distinguished road
Re: About to buy, nagging engine issue - seeking advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
(including getting stuck in the engaged mode for a few of minutes).
That's never to good. Rare but happends. Had one hang up cause a fire one time....
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need advice: Buy a boat for its engine? grinfax Gear & Maintenance 15 01-04-2012 03:47 PM
Re: Friend seeking to buy a 8 - 9 ft used dinghy NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 07-10-2007 01:15 PM
Re: Friend seeking to buy a 8 - 9 ft used dinghy NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 07-10-2007 01:15 PM
Re: Friend seeking to buy a 8 - 9 ft used dinghy NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 07-10-2007 01:15 PM
Re: Friend seeking to buy a 8 - 9 ft used dinghy NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 07-10-2007 01:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:40 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.