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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
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Diesel This is a forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


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  #21  
Old 05-16-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Montgomery View Post
... The local mechanic(s) suggested I work on the injectors first. If that does not help then we start looking at compression and other stuff...
Sounds like someone wants to sell you a rebuild. Be careful about taking advice from someone who will profit from your problem. An unethical mechanic will convince you that you have a problem only a professional mechanic can solve. Many folks would not try to replace the injectors, as you did (probably unnecessarily).

Learn how to fix your engine yourself. I am a rank amateur and I know enough that you were given bad advice about the injectors, which contradicts every diagnostic manual I have seen. The compression issue smells like pure B.S. for an engine with your low hours. A well-maintained diesel should last 10,000 hours.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

well maintained is the key word there...it only takes but a couple good doseages of abuse to ruin an otherwise awesome engine

running real low on oil and continuing to run even for a few minutes

using very bad fuel...

overheating it...

running the engine with clogged exhaust and or elbows

not running the engine at high rpm before each shutdown to clear it out...not changing coolant often if using a heat exchanger

etc...etc..etc
the list is endless
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

btw others are much more knowledgeable on this but injectors are quite sturdy and can be cleaned and reused and "rejetted" many times if you will

we had our 2 injectors in our 2gm suck in a big amount of seawater when we were refuelling off puerto vallarta in mexico...a long time ago...

within seconds it was too late and the engine quit on us...we actually had to be towed in by the mexican navy into port no amount of cleaning the fuel worked...or filters for that matter...

I took the engine down to where I was comfortable(I was very young at the time) and then had some local mechanics go from there

basically they took off the injectors, washed out the oil and pan, rejetted the spray pattern, basically just cleaned and soaked the injectors to remove all crud and presto engine ran all the way up to ft.lauderdale and the east coast with 1000s more hours on same injectors that engine is probably still happily putting along somewehere...

basically it takes a lot to mess with injectors, and injectors beleive it or not are more likely to be damaged from human hands than from even abussive running conditions...or bad fuel or whatever...

in any case
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Old 05-16-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

Dave,
Can you describe what you mean by "hard to start when engine is cold".

FWIW, my yanmar 3gmd can also be hard to start after sitting for a couple weeks and when cold (mind you cold here in Hawaii would mean a block temp of no lower than about 70 deg F). When it is hard to start, I imagine it can get worse by turning over the engine without a start and more fuel gets dumped into the cylinders without getting burned. This just compounds the "hard to start when cold".

As I say my engine can be hard to start when cold. This means I may turn it over (with starter) for say 5 seconds before she fires. Then somtimes after she fires she will stall. I turn her over for 5 more seconds and she starts and runs. I warm her up for say 10 minutes and I am off. I normally run her for 15 minutes and then sail only. Even after sailing for say 5 hours, when I go to start the engine, she starts up right away with no problems- the block is probably say 90 deg F.

I am not sure if the above is normal for a 30 year old engine, but she is good enough for my purposes and I am not about to start tering her down to find any "problems". My injectors may be a little "off", but I will let them go for now.

I also use fuel injector cleaner additive into my diesel fuel. My engine used to run a lot worse than it does now. Maybe the injection cleaner helped.

Good luck
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Old 05-17-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

Before suggesting new injectors, I would have suggested you take the boat out and run the engine at relatively high throttle and high load for several hours. Then see if you still have the problem.

Most of our operating conditions are less than optimal. We motor 15 minutes in and out of the slip/mooring multiple times. We run the engine in neutral to warm up and cool down. The engine develops a shellac from low load, short run operation, when you do not operate it at higher temperatures as it was intended for extended periods of time.

My engine starts most easily when I use it the most for extended periods of time under load. I also use a diesel fuel additive to boost cetane level and clean the injectors.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 05-17-2014 at 06:25 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

Hi all that have replied or offered thoughts and ideas on this hard-starting 3GM30F. So, a quick review for those catching up...

This engine seemed to run fine when warm but after sitting overnight it became difficult to start, as defined by several 10 sec. cranking spells, sputtering and ultimately starting. With this would be quite a bit of smoke at first. When running it would smoke a bit, not enough to contribute to global warming, but enough to irritate me especially when motoring with a tailwind. When the engine was hot it always starts Right Now. No problem, only when cold. So a local marine service co., with a very good reputation I might add, suggested my injectors could be the problem I figured why not try that. Bought three new ones, but first had mine looked at. They were quite dirty. Cleaned them up and had a injector shop here is Seattle finish the job. I put them in last Friday and the engine started quicker than before... it starts catching much sooner and gets running faster. Most noticeable is that there is no smoke when running. There does continue to be a significant amount of smoke at startup and the starting process is still longer than it should be I believe. When running, it has never run better. I could live with the slow start but it just is not right so I will continue looking for other potential issues. Mr. Wilson, given that the advice I was given "contradicts every diagnostic manual" you know of... pls. tell us all what could be the cause of this starting problem. I and many others would love your wisdom. Im really tired of this starting issue so please, tell me what to do next! :-)
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Old 05-19-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

No one else will diagnose your starting problem for you from a distance; no one can diagnose your starting problem without working through the process on the boat at the engine. That is why your "well-respected" mechanic is full of ca ca. It is a step-by-step process of elimination, checking one element after another.

You can do it, or you can pay someone to do it. Buy a diagnostic manual and walk through the steps. Don't take advice from someone who profits from your ignorance, which is readily apparent.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 05-19-2014 at 07:03 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-19-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

Mr. Wilson, The only thing clearly evident is that you have nothing to offer. As usual, big hat, no cattle. Another assessment is simply that you are a jerk. I'll settle on the latter.

Thanks to the rest if you for your insights.
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Old 05-19-2014
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

Dave,
Your starting issues might be tied to engine compression. Once and engine is run, or even turned over for a short time, the compressed air heats up the piston/cylinder and causes tolerances to beocme tighter- this increases to compression ratio of the engine and allows the engine to start faster and run smother. Also the higher temps allow the atomized diesel spraying out of the fuel injectors to evaporate quicker and explode sooner and more efficiently leading to better running.

As I understand, once your engine is warm, it will start up and run good.

On cold startup, it can be harder.

Maybe try this test:
1. Close off your raw water inlet valve so you do not flood the engine with salt water.

2. Pull and keep pulled the engine shut down valve. This will prevent diesel from going to the fuel injection pump. Not sure how you stop you engine, but you want to pull (and keep pulling) what ever you normally pull on to stop the engine.

3.Now turn the engine over for 15 seconds with the electric starter. The decompression levers should be closed (same position they would be if you were starting the engine).

4. Now release the engine shut down control and open the raw water inlet valve. And attempt to start the engine. Does it start up? How long does it take?, How does it run after starting?

Other questions:
Are you giving engine full throttle on cold start up? This means once the engine starts, you quickly pull back the throttle to idle position to prevent over reving the engine.
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Re: Cleaning my Yanmar injectors?

Dave,
One other item you could check:
Adjust your intake and exhaust valves. Not too hard to do. Incorrect vavle clearence could lower your engine compression.

If above does not work, then maybe it is your fuel injection timing. That is more diffucult to adjust and requires removal of fuel injection pump.
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