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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2014
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

Black smoke (although you say soot, not smoke) is a sign of improper fuel/air mix. I would check air intake and filter first, as its easy to do, but not often the problem. The filter itself would need to be crazy dirty. Fuel pump pressure might be the problem, but again, its not common and more likely to just not work at all.

The most likely cause is dirty injectors. How long since they've been professionally cleaned? There is no way a novice could diagnose the proper atomization by just looking at it. They also can't be cleaned properly by just scrapping off the exterior soot. Personally, I would just buy a new one (its a single lung diesel right?), then have the old one cleaned and inspected as a spare (store it in diesel fuel).

Cracked heads, blown gaskets, etc usually add a few other telltales, such as water in the oil or exterior seeping on the motor itself. Blown rings will let oil past and one would expect some blue exhaust.

Leaving the ignition off seems coincidental, so far.
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

I donít know if it is related to the key being turned off, but Iím pretty sure I know whatís causing the black stain in the water. I think that the raw water input in the exhaust elbow was clogged. Pretty simple fix. Remove the exhaust elbow from the engine, unscrew the small adapter that introduces the raw water, and I think youíll find the opening at least partially clogged with carbon like soot. Cleanup carbon buildup, reassemble, you should be good to go.
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

The back pressure from a clogged elbow is a smoke causing issue, but I read that the OP already checked this. Maybe that's not what they meant by:

Quote:
I have pulled the exhaust: it is clear and with it removed, same symptom (but loud).
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

It is not a clogged or restricted intake. There is no filter, just a pipe. I have removed it, exposing the intake valve and started it. It died with the same symptom.

It is not a restricted exhaust. I removed the riser, exposing the exhaust valve and started it. It died with the same symptom.

I have bypassed the fuel pick-up in the fuel tank by running a line from the primary filter directly into the tank through an access plate. It died with the same symptom.

The point about no alarms is valid. I did notice that the oil level was low. The oil is black with no evidence of water. I removed the oil pressure sender and turned it over to make sure the oil pump was working. It is.

I did a full tear-down and cleaning of the injector, but as was mentioned, I probably can't judge the spray pattern.

I continue to hope it is a fuel problem and not something more severe in the engine. Maybe the injector pump?

The black soot really bothers me. I don't see how it jives with the symptoms unless it is because it isn't coming up to temperature or ????

Thanks for the help, I think you can see why my forehead is black-and-blue (the wall is getting dents).
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRickW View Post
......The black soot really bothers me. I don't see how it jives with the symptoms unless it is because it isn't coming up to temperature or ????.....
Black is fuel/air mixture, poor combustion. Temp can cause tolerances to close up as metals expand, but not likely to cause black. More likely, blue (oil)

Let's bet a beer, it's your injectors. How many engine hours since the last professional cleaning? You many not take the bet, if you know.
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

Injector service is a bit of a specialty. If you've torn it down yourself you may need it professionally checked. A proper pressure "pop" test will tell the tale better than a mere observation.

Another concern is that your alternator may be toast after having run so long with the key off.

Since the engine ran fine for hours after the key was turned off it's a little hard to believe that that has caused this new issue.
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRickW View Post
I think you can see why my forehead is black-and-blue (the wall is getting dents).
I think you've done a fair bit! Pity the wall.

As I know nothing much about engines all I can give is a general bit of advice that seems to apply to all my boat problems: Go back to basics and think through the most likely things that occur when one turns the key off..

For example why is the key being off going to affect the air intake pipe? It can't.

The key being off affects electrical stuff, doesn't it? So whats the electrical stuff that could have failed as a direct cause of too much or too little electricity? Only the alternators, electric fuel pumps or other electrics that make the thing go (or stop).

I did like Paulinvictorias
Quote:
Perhaps you have damaged the alternator and it is now providing too much physical resistance somehow,
Did you take the fan belt off and give it a spin?

Theres gotta be a direct cause, one problem doesn't jump left field, it can't. Can it?
Does your engine have an electronic EGR valve? Is that the sort of thing that could have overloaded? That makes smoke.


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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 08-27-2014 at 02:02 PM.
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

Except for the black soot, it sounds like there may still be an air pocket or air leak somewhere in the fuel system. Your electric pump may be used to pressurize the system right up to the injector pump to bleed or pressurize, depending on the configuration. Maybe the pump's pressure is failing? Sounds like you did all the easiest things first before tearing it apart, maybe a repeat.

Can't think of anything but the alternator being effected by turning the key off unless there is some interface between the oil pressure, fuel pump, or alternator?

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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

Take the belt off the alternator and see if it spins OK, since the engine ran at higher rpms and died when you went to idle maybe the alternator is binding just enough to stall out the engine at idle.

If not my bet is a piston problem and you are getting oil into your cylinder and that is maybe why the oil level is low and also why you are not getting a good burn, test the compression.
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Last edited by Don0190; 08-27-2014 at 06:03 PM.
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Re: Partner shut off key on overnight run now engine won't run...

I'm not sure I would bet it is the injector (it may be) but I think I would bet it is fuel related.

How is this for a theory: when the key was off, the electric fuel pump was off. With the fuel pump off the injector pump had to suck rather than being fed fuel. This may have caused some problems in the pump (perhaps the fuel cavitated during the suck allowing some scoring on the piston).

OR

Pulling fuel through the fuel pump somehow damaged it (seems less likely).

Here is what I will try this weekend:
1) Pull the alternator belt
2) Purchase a new electric fuel pump and rig it to pump from a clean can of diesel directly into the injector pump. That way, I bypass the filters and all lines up to the injector pump.

How does that sound? Any other experiments to narrow it down?
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