Yanmar 3gm30f rebuild...It all boils down to customer service but where do we go? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
 Not a Member? 

Diesel This is a forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 11-23-2010
kb3pwc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 121
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
kb3pwc is on a distinguished road
the saga continues

Well, we are still feeling sick about our engine. The tech who rebuilt the Yanmar traveled to the boat yard to see the way it was acting. He looked over the installation and saw how it was performing and immediately asked to have it pulled and he would take it back with him. The yard pulled the engine and put it in his truck and it was opened up back at the shop.

My husband traveled to NJ to see the engine apart. Findings are three bent rods due to fluid (water or fuel) incursion. The problems from our point of view is how did this unknown fluid get in..... The shop tells us we did not do anything wrong.

Funny that when they rebuilt the engine, they did not replace the rods. They say they were in "spec"...sadly they are no longer in spec.

The next thing is the engine will be returned and will go back in the boat. We are so nervous that this will happen again. No one has resolved how this has come to happen so we do not know if the installation was correct or incorrect.

My husband was aboard during storms that brought surge to ensure dock lines let the vessel sit in the slip without tension down at the stern. We have sailed in some brisk breezes but can not see how we could have water come in via the exhaust.

Does anyone have any ideas about how this could happen? The boat yard is trying to puzzle this problem. We think about nothing else. The re-builder gives no information other than results.

Oh yeah, when the tech came down and took the engine back, he found the transmission (that was done by another shop) was totally wrong. I do not even know what that means but the yard is going to get that resolved.

WAAAA. Sorry to cry on you all but know that there is lots of good ideas that come from this group.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. For all this trouble, we are still well blessed and will celebrate this time of year.

kb3pwc
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 11-29-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimd333sail is on a distinguished road
Hope you enjoyed Thanksgiving and were able to take a break from this problem. I sympathize as I have had a melodrama of diesel events (although spread over many years) because the original owner did serious damage, and an unbelievable number of so-called diesel mechanics have either missed "the boat" during the pre-purchase and have made things worse by trying to take shortcuts with the so called rebuild.
The white smoke is most likely caused by a problem with the cylinder head gasket....and I'm suspecting that the rods were never checked to see whether they were "in spec" or not. How many total hours do you figure were on the engine? And are you the original owners?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 11-29-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Just curious, how did you pay for the repairs? If you paid via credit card, you may have recourse through your credit card company. If you paid by check, you're probably SOL.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 11-30-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimd333sail is on a distinguished road
PS: I doubt that there can be water incursion for any cranking time less than thirty seconds. I hope by now the rebuild shop has stepped up to the plate and will make your engine right.
As a previous post stated, they make mistakes like anybody else....but are we willing to correct our mistakes even if it hurts?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 11-30-2010
kb3pwc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 121
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
kb3pwc is on a distinguished road
It has been indigestion for Thanksgiving with the Yanmar in the middle..

Thank you for your kind thoughts to our frustration.

We are the second owners of this vessel. She was well traveled and probably had over 6000 hours on the Yanmar when we purchased her. There was no Hobbs meter. We did have a separate diesel survey at time of purchase and it was in need of some attention to the kill switch but compression was good and it seemed to perform as expected. We have owned this boat 5 years and want to take her for some extended cruising. Last year the diesel started to show it's age with difficult starting so rather than repower (this engine is no longer available) we opted for a rebuild. This meant we did not have to relocate exhaust, interior cabinets and furniture since the CR34 seems to be built snugly around the engine.

Our rebuild was completed and the engine was put back in the boat, now with that Hobbs meter so we know exactly how long we used the engine....sadly we only got between 35 and 36 hours of use.

We communicated with the installer (whom we had contracted for the work) and they looked at the boat and concurred that they saw the same issues we did....had to push more than once to start, smoke at first start and ran rough for first 20-30 seconds than ran fine.

They could not find anything that did not look right to them so they had the tech who had done the rebuild come down to see it. He had them pull the engine on the spot and he took it back to NJ to open it up. He found three bent rods and those have been replaced but they say they will not honor their warranty for those rods as they feel they did not do anything wrong in their rebuild. He also says that he (as the technician) can not discuss it. My husband also went to the Jersey office to see the engine open but it was already put back together and the report was there was nothing wrong other than the bent rods. That does not give us a warm or fuzzy feeling.

Our worry is without finding the cause of the water incursion, this could repeat with this second rebuild. It would be so much more reassuring to know what went wrong and that has been addressed. We do not want to point fingers or have to be the heavy in this but we do just want our engine to work.... Of course no one wants to identify their work as the culprit to cause this issue.

And no, we did not pay for these services with a credit card. Wrote them a check.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 11-30-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb3pwc View Post
Thank you for your kind thoughts to our frustration.

We are the second owners of this vessel. She was well traveled and probably had over 6000 hours on the Yanmar when we purchased her. There was no Hobbs meter. We did have a separate diesel survey at time of purchase and it was in need of some attention to the kill switch but compression was good and it seemed to perform as expected. We have owned this boat 5 years and want to take her for some extended cruising. Last year the diesel started to show it's age with difficult starting so rather than repower (this engine is no longer available) we opted for a rebuild. This meant we did not have to relocate exhaust, interior cabinets and furniture since the CR34 seems to be built snugly around the engine.

Our rebuild was completed and the engine was put back in the boat, now with that Hobbs meter so we know exactly how long we used the engine....sadly we only got between 35 and 36 hours of use.

We communicated with the installer (whom we had contracted for the work) and they looked at the boat and concurred that they saw the same issues we did....had to push more than once to start, smoke at first start and ran rough for first 20-30 seconds than ran fine.

They could not find anything that did not look right to them so they had the tech who had done the rebuild come down to see it. He had them pull the engine on the spot and he took it back to NJ to open it up. He found three bent rods and those have been replaced but they say they will not honor their warranty for those rods as they feel they did not do anything wrong in their rebuild. He also says that he (as the technician) can not discuss it. My husband also went to the Jersey office to see the engine open but it was already put back together and the report was there was nothing wrong other than the bent rods. That does not give us a warm or fuzzy feeling.

Our worry is without finding the cause of the water incursion, this could repeat with this second rebuild. It would be so much more reassuring to know what went wrong and that has been addressed. We do not want to point fingers or have to be the heavy in this but we do just want our engine to work.... Of course no one wants to identify their work as the culprit to cause this issue.
Any time it takes longer than 15 seconds or so to start an engine... you really should have the raw water intake to the engine closed or you risk hydrolocking the engine. The specific amount of time it takes really depends on the design of your exhaust system. You might want to re-vamp or re-design it to reduce the chance of water entering the block.

Quote:
And no, we did not pay for these services with a credit card. Wrote them a check.
That is always a mistake, and one I made a couple of times. I no longer pay via check. If they don't accept credit cards in this day and age, I can find another vendor. Credit cards provide you a modicum of protection against bad workmanship. If you can afford to pay via a check, you can pay off the credit card with the same money and gain reward points as well as some protection without incurring interest charges.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 11-30-2010
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,244
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 7
tommays will become famous soon enough


A lot of issues can come from how its installed and things like a bad anti-spihon are hard to see from just looking
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 11-30-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimd333sail is on a distinguished road
I guess my point is that with a newly rebuild engine you should have never had hard starting problems and thus never would have had to crank the engine long enough to to have water incursion. It is also my understanding from a career diesel mechanic friend that one should re-torque cylinder head bolts after running fifty hours or thereabouts; or at least at the first sign of steamy smoke coming out of the exhaust.
I would offer to pay them the cost (retail) of the bent rods and the new head gasket. If you can't come to an agreement then the State of NJ Attorney General's office for consumer affairs may have some thoughts on arbitration, if that is an option in NJ.
I think you are going to be fine this time with the engine. Buy Nigel Calder's book on diesels for a stocking stuffer and let us know how it all works out
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 11-30-2010
kb3pwc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 121
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
kb3pwc is on a distinguished road
What you are saying,,,we are living.

Yes, my husband always closes the raw water intake when starting if it does not catch on first time. Yes the re-torque was to be done at 50 hours, if we had gotten to 50 hours, along with oil change, realign the propeller shaft and general check. The yard did check the torque when they looked at it at that 35 hour time frame at it was good. We did not go with the lowest bid for this re-fit but thought we chose a very reputable organization to do our work. We do want to know what caused water to get into the engine so we can avoid a repeat of this experience.

We have been in touch with our insurance company and are contacting Boat US consumer protection services. Love the diagram, by the way.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 12-01-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimd333sail is on a distinguished road
The damage could have been done by the previous owner putting too much oil in the cylinders in order to start on a cold day or any number of occurrences before you bought the boat. Has anyone shown you proof of water in either the fuel or oil?
It's possible to have used the engine (I'm assuming) for the 300 hours over the last five years and just now have the cylinders/rings show the wear problem from the bent rods.
I hope they changed the mixing elbow in the exhaust as part of the overhaul.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rigrite and customer service. zz4gta Gear & Maintenance 12 05-18-2011 04:18 PM
Pacific Seacraft customer service fishtrip Pacific Seacraft 3 12-08-2009 07:42 PM
SIMRAD Customer Service thorJ30 Gear & Maintenance 5 07-11-2008 09:40 PM
X-Yachts Customer Service ohaavik General Discussion (sailing related) 10 11-22-2007 11:07 AM
SailNet Customer Service stantm General Discussion (sailing related) 6 09-28-2002 09:53 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:00 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.