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Starting a diesel that sat for 18 years.

32K views 39 replies 20 participants last post by  MarkofSeaLife 
#1 ·
I've read the threads under this heading and found one similar to our situation:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel-engine-forum/74290-starting-diesel-sat-2-years.html

We bought a boat that has been sitting on a trailer for pretty close to 18 years, best guess. Never registered, never been in the water, engine hour meter shows 1 hour running. Its a Norsea 27 that needs the interior finished.

The engine is a Yanmar 2gm20F, our very first diesel, in fact our first inboard.
I can see fuel, the color of weak tea, in the filter bowl. Here is my plan to start the engine :
1: change oil and oil filter
2: drain fuel tank
3: change fuel filter
4: drain as much of the fuel in the lines by opening the bleeder valves
5: disconnect steel tubing to injectors, attach vinyl tube to steel injector tubing, lead other end of vinyl tube to container to catch old fuel when engine is cranked. Maybe this is a bad step if the pump requires some sort of back pressure.
6: supply fresh fuel to fuel filter intake.
7: bleed system
8: decompress engine, crank till fresh fuel is visible in vinyl tubing.
9: reattach steel tubing to injectors, supply cooling water to intake, close decompression level, cross fingers and crank engine.
10: hear engine running
11: do victory dance.

Is this the right plan? Am I being overly cautious or not doing enough?

Jerry
 
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#2 ·
Jerry. that's amazing.. sitting so long. Question? does it even turn over by hand or with a wrench? I know on gas engines it's common to squirt something in the cylinders first since they may be rusted. I"d hook up a new or temporary tank and filter because 18 yr old fuel is mostly sludge!
 
#4 ·
If you're doing this in the water, leave the RWC valve closed until you hear that sweet chug when she starts.. otherwise extended cranking may flood your exhaust system.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Denise, I can rock the engine back and forth by rocking the pulleys. So I'm pretty sure the engine is not seized. I guess it wouldn't hurt anything if the engine is turned over using a wrench. I would open the decompression lever first. I think the engine rotates counter clockwise. Got the manual so I'll check that first.
 
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#7 ·
meme, I think I'd pull the injectors and have them examined, reconditioned if necessary. Even with "one" hours on them all that sitting around could have allowed for corrosion.

But in any event, pull them and put some lubricant (marvel mystery oil?) in each cylinder, hand crank a few times, to get some lube oil on the cylinder walls and rings before you fire it up.
 
#18 ·
But in any event, pull them and put some lubricant (marvel mystery oil?) in each cylinder, hand crank a few times, to get some lube oil on the cylinder walls and rings before you fire it up.
Bingo! MMO in the cylinders but let it sit for a few days then turn by hand and extract the MMO from the cylinders into rags or suck out with an oil extraction pump.. We used to do this on seized engines that sat for a while and never once had a ring issue. You want to do each cylinder at bottom dead center so the entire cylinder wall gets coated with MMO, pretty easy on a 2 cylinder. There may be surface rust on the cyl walls and starting her right up may polish them smooth with the skim coat or rust. You don't want to destroy the factory cross hatching....
 
#8 ·
Steps 1,2 & 3 good.

Do not touch the injectors, do nothing except get fresh diesel to the injector pump and bleed the pump.

Turn the engine over with the decompressor pulled until the oil pressure guage moves. Shut off decompressor set throttle to full and see if she starts most will start within 10 to 30 seconds if not bleed at injectors by cracking the pipe nuts while cranking and try again.

Have someone at the throttle to pull it back when it starts.

I have started a number of engines that have lain untouched for years either in scrapyards or in military stores and have NEVER had to overhaul injectors, thrown away a couple of seized ones yes but overhaul no.
 
#19 ·
Steps 1,2 & 3 good.

Do not touch the injectors, do nothing except get fresh diesel to the injector pump and bleed the pump.

Turn the engine over with the decompressor pulled until the oil pressure guage moves. Shut off decompressor set throttle to full and see if she starts most will start within 10 to 30 seconds if not bleed at injectors by cracking the pipe nuts while cranking and try again.

Have someone at the throttle to pull it back when it starts.

I have started a number of engines that have lain untouched for years either in scrapyards or in military stores and have NEVER had to overhaul injectors, thrown away a couple of seized ones yes but overhaul no.
+1 to TQA's response - if it rotates freely, don't mess with any parts - change the fluids etc. as posted here and try to start it - if it doesn't start, or runs poorly, THEN start working on the hard parts. The Perkins in my current boat had lain unused for years but started on the second crank and ran fine.

As an example of how incredibly easily a diesel can start, I once took delivery of a new, one lung Yanmar. I was unfamiliar with small diesels at the time and was examining it on its shipping skid. I determined it had oil in the crankcase and was rotating it with the hand crank while holding the compression release lever.

When I let the lever go, the engine started, just on the assembly oil in the cylinder! Talk about a scramble to decompress it! :D
 
#9 ·
I would as you say drain the entire fuel system and discard the fuel. Change all filters crank oil, and trans oil. Fill the fuel tank with bio diesel, it has a higher lubricity than petroleum diesel, coat the raw water impeller with petroleum jelly and reassemble the pump and shut off the raw water until it starts running. Remove the intake silencer and fog with fogging oil for a couple of cranks decompressed, bleed fuel system according to mfr's instructions and start her up. If you can turn the crank pulley it is either not locked up or it is in need of an awful lot of work as something big would have to be broken(given what you have said about hours I think this is unlikely). I wouldn't pull any injectors until I have exhausted the fuel supply side, as if you have fuel, timing and crank a diesel will run unless something big is wrong.
 
#10 ·
My Yanmar (and Norsea 27) sat on the trailer for 4 years during one stretch of 5 years when military assignments took me here and there and I had no one to look after the boat. With the old fuel and a fresh battery, the engine started within two revolutions. Turns out the aluminum fuel tank was rotted and there was water and a biology experiment in the tank, but the "clean" fuel in the pump, lines, and injection pump was enough to test run the engine for a couple of minutes.

My recommendations are based on fighting this fuel system and neglected engine (I know, my fault) for a couple of years, which now makes me nervous about an idle, neglected engine, so I start it regularly while the boat is on the trailer. I would do the following (not in chronological order):

I don't think your water pump impeller needs inspection and repair. The boat has never been in salt water, so the engine was run on fresh water, and probably laid up to prevent freezing, and the impeller is basically unused and never exposed to UV. You can't put a pressure source on your water intake. That will flood your engine through the exhaust manifold, so when you are ready to run the engine, disconnect the supply to the water pump and put a length of half inch ID hose on it, and the other end of it in a 5 gal bucket on the deck in the salon or head. Put water in the bucket and let the pump lift the water to the engine. Fill the bucket with a hose as needed. I usually fill the pump supply hose by partially filling the bucket, putting it in the cockpit, siphoning water into the hose, then moving the bucket inside. I put a garden hose in the bucket and adjust flow as needed to maintain the bucket level while running the engine.

If the starting battery hasn't been replaced, do so.

For the fuel system, buy a six gallon portable fuel tank and the lines and fittings to fit hoses to the vent and to the supply to the inlet to the fuel lift pump for the engine. Disconnect the installed fuel tank at the inlet to the fuel lift pump and connect the tank, with a bulb pump in the line to use for priming. Change the engine fuel filter and prime the filter by cracking the vent on top of the filter while pressing the bulb. Open the vent when the bulb is pressed and close it before you release the bulb to press it again, as needed. Get all the air out of the fuel supply.

Check that the engine fuel control cable operates smoothly. The only internal issue I had with the long layup of my engine was that a little rust built up on fuel rack on the fuel injection pump. As a result, the throttle control and governor would not perform reliability. The FI pump and governor gave fair service for a good while after the engine was placed back in service, and I only found this much later, but you can check cable smooth operation without disassembly now, and pull the governor cover and check the pump rack later when you have time. The FI pump rack is a precision ground fit in the pump and must slide almost friction free.

Change the oil and filter.

When you first try to start the engine, use the compression release and spin her good, then release it and see if she starts. My guess is she will. If the engine doesn't start after about 20 seconds of spinning, stop trying. If you spin the engine longer than that, you risk pumping water into the engine...exhaust is needed to expel the cooling water via the exhaust.

If the engine doesn't start, prime the fuel system again, up to the FI pump inlet and the excess fuel line that comes back to the fuel filter from the injectors. That primes both sides of the pressurized fuel system with fuel at low pressure, and the FI pump should do the rest. Repeat as needed. There is a bit of art to priming. You may not get it done right the first time.

Try to start the engine again. When it is running, be sure to check that the exhaust pulses cooling water out the back of the boat.

When it is running, I would run it at relatively low speeds for a while, building up RPM pretty slowly, because the cylinders/pistons/rings could have a little bit of corrosion and the engine really hasn't been run long enough to break it in.

I would run the engine from the portable tank long enough to ensure that fresh fuel was everywhere in the engine fuel system. Then I would tackle the fuel tank and filtration system as a separate issue.
 
#11 ·
I know how to make it rain, try to work on your boat. I'm glad I started this thread because I learned a few things. One I was going to hook up the garden hose to the water intake, turn the hose on and crank the engine. I think that would have been a bone head move because flooding the cylinders with water from the exhaust would have happened. Also I should concentrate on just starting the engine instead of spending time to drain and clean the tank. Its a bit difficult to purchase boat parts in the hills of east Tennessee but Autozone did come through with a cross reference for the fuel filter. And Fram does have an oil filter that fits my Yanmar. Tonight I decompressed the engine, there are two levers, put a socket, 1&1/16", to the nut up front and turned the engine over several times while attempting to spray fogging oil into the air intake. Then I hooked up a new battery, turned the key on and was greeted with a siren. Turns out that is normal. Pushed the start button and the engine turned over. The decompression levers are still open. Tomorrow, if it doesn't rain Ill get a gallon of fresh diesel, finish changing the oil and try to start the engine for real.

The foam in the air cleaner falls apart when touched. Its back to autozone for more parts.

Thanks to all who suggested the proper course of action.
 
#12 ·
Meme, Autozone is a good source for oil and oil filters, but not for your engine parts. Your Yanmar should have Yanmar parts. Check the Torreson Marine web site. Search by engine manufacturer and model and you will find parts listings for your 2GM20. Autozone isn't going to have them. Yanmar parts are distributed on a regional basis, and the dealers can't sell out of region, so you need to find your regional supplier. Those I am familiar with are Torreson in the North Central US (Michigan base), Bay Shore Marine in the Mid-Atlantic (Annapolis) and Ideal Marine in the Southeast (Orange Beach, AL). Don't know where you are, but you ought to look yours up. Yanmar parts folks are usually sharp and can fix you up.

You can take that air filter out and toss it if the air is good in your engine room (no dust and dirt) and run the engine without it with just the cover in place until you can get one. If you have dirt daubers or other nesting insects in your area, just put a zip lock with a rubber band around the intake horn when you aren't trying to start or run the engine. Remember to take it off before starting the engine.
 
#13 ·
Sounds like you have a grip on things .. FWIW any diesel I have worked on that has been sitting for years first and fore most pour a few gallons of diesel IN the eng everywhere , dissconnect fuel lines (remove injectore if you want not allways nesserary makes things eazer on batt & starter)

then run the eng over a bunch if it sticks leave it sit for hours then come back and bump it again ( I have even unstuck many engs this way some have taken a week or longer) if it turns over good then just run the eng over till everything gets lubed good.
Then drain it all put in oil run it over for as long as your batts will take , drain oil out , add new oil again , bleed injector lines and then start it .

This has never failed me and saved many ring rebuilds over the years , yes it seems troublesome but it works..
 
#14 ·
Just my 2 cents worth. You have alot of good advise in this thread.

Run your water pickup out of a bucket not from a pressured hose.
Have a fresh fuel supply connected to the lift pump.
Make sure you have oil pressure before starting
Leave your air filter off the manifold and have a piece of plywood that you can shut off the air supply. If the injection pump governor is stuck open or goes into full fuel position. The engine can rev out and destroy itself.
Check that the engine is pumping water after starting.


Good luck, Dave.
 
#15 ·
Dave the advice on the stuck governor and how to shut the engine down is much appreciated. Thanks.
How do I know if the engine has oil pressure prior to starting? Will the oil warning lamp go off while cranking with the decompression levers set to open?
 
#16 ·
On the Yanmar 2GM there is an oil pressure sender for the light located hear the oil filter. You can get a test oil pressure gauge and hose from the parts supply store. You remove the oil pressure sender and screw in the test guage. You should get around 20psi cranking the engine.
When you crank the engine with the decompression lever engauged it holds the valves open that is the only difference. The oil pump pumps and the light will go out. The injectors are putting in fuel so you will have some unburnt fuel in the engine and exhaust that will burn off after the engine starts causing white smoke and possible knocking. It is best to pull the stop lever and decompression lever if spinning the engine over to test for oil pressure.

Usefull links
Yanmar 2GM20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oil filter and pressure switch
File:Oil filter.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a link for a free Yanmar Service Manual
http://j30.us/files/yanmar-manual.pdf

Dave.
 
#21 ·
I have a 3GMD. I purchased an oil pressure sender and a gauge. I was planning to install these ( and use with the existing press switch/light).
Is this worthwile or just somthing else that could leak oil? If I did it, what is the best way to connect the pressure sender engine?
 
#22 ·
"When you crank the engine with the decompression lever engauged it holds the valves open that is the only difference. "

A light bulb went off in my head. A few days ago I turned the engine over with a ratchet and socket in one hand and a can of fogging oil in the other. I thought I had to turn the engine while spraying the oil because the valves would be opening and closing. Now with the above info all I have to do is spray the oil into the air intake hole.
 
#24 ·
Just be carefull how much you use. Read the instructions. It is easy to create a hydraulic lock inside the cylinders and damage the engine.

It is always a good idea to turn the engine over 2 revolutions by hand (by wrench and stop cable plulled out) after any repairs or spraying to make sure that it does not lock up from liquid in the cylinders. eg. excessive oil or water backing up into the cylinders..
 
#26 ·
Ahhhh, the sweet song of the diesel.She started the first time I pushed the start button on the maybe the second rev. She was spitting black for about 30 seconds. Probably all that fogging oil I sprayed in. Throttle works, she idles around 1000 rpm, seems high, more quiet than I thought it would be, engine kill linkage works too. One huge check mark done on the book of things to do.

I have the fuel return line going to a can to catch all the old fuel. None came out, in fact no fuel came out. I thought about 10 % was injected while 90% was returned to the tank.

I also learned I don't like bleeding the fuel lines or changing the oil. I think mechanical devices to do this are in my future. An electrically operated oil pump to suck the oil out of the sump and an inline electric fuel pump to charge the lines.

Thanks to all who suggested the proper course of action.
 
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#28 ·
Ahhhh, the sweet song of the diesel.She started the first time I pushed the start button on the maybe the second rev. She was spitting black for about 30 seconds. Probably all that fogging oil I sprayed in. Throttle works, she idles around 1000 rpm, seems high, more quiet than I thought it would be, engine kill linkage works too. One huge check mark done on the book of things to do.

I have the fuel return line going to a can to catch all the old fuel. None came out, in fact no fuel came out. I thought about 10 % was injected while 90% was returned to the tank.

I also learned I don't like bleeding the fuel lines or changing the oil. I think mechanical devices to do this are in my future. An electrically operated oil pump to suck the oil out of the sump and an inline electric fuel pump to charge the lines.

Thanks to all who suggested the proper course of action.
I do not get fuel out of my return line on my 3GMD either. I also do not seem to get to full RPM rated.

I would think if fuel was not going back to the tank through the fuel return line, then the fuel injection pump must not be pumping enough fuel. I have a new yanmar lift pump and all my filters are new. Engine runs ok, and powers boat fine, just does not make max rpm.

Any ideas what would cause this?
 
#27 ·
Congrats! Oil changing is easier when it's slightly warm.. a little plunger type hand pump is all you need. It's nice to have a hose connected to the oil pan drain to make the job even easier. Many people opt to pull it up and out the dipstick tube too.
 
#33 ·
Don't worry that you have little fuel coming out of the return line if you have a plunger type injector pump. The return line is only there to deal with leakage past the plungers an injectors which is a small but significant amount. Say 1 to 2 % of fuel burnt.

N.B. There is a type of pump/governor which does bypass large %s of fuel but I don't think it is fitted to a 3GM.
 
#38 ·
I've read the threads under this heading and found one similar to our situation:
Starting a diesel that sat 2 years

We bought a boat that has been sitting on a trailer for pretty close to 18 years, best guess. Never registered, never been in the water, engine hour meter shows 1 hour running. Its a Norsea 27 that needs the interior finished.

The engine is a Yanmar 2gm20F, our very first diesel, in fact our first inboard.
I can see fuel, the color of weak tea, in the filter bowl. Here is my plan to start the engine :
1: change oil and oil filter
2: drain fuel tank
3: change fuel filter
4: drain as much of the fuel in the lines by opening the bleeder valves
5: disconnect steel tubing to injectors, attach vinyl tube to steel injector tubing, lead other end of vinyl tube to container to catch old fuel when engine is cranked. Maybe this is a bad step if the pump requires some sort of back pressure.
6: supply fresh fuel to fuel filter intake.
7: bleed system
8: decompress engine, crank till fresh fuel is visible in vinyl tubing.
9: reattach steel tubing to injectors, supply cooling water to intake, close decompression level, cross fingers and crank engine.
10: hear engine running
11: do victory dance.

Is this the right plan? Am I being overly cautious or not doing enough?

Jerry
Hi Skipper Joe,

I was wondering if you had any seal or gasket problems with this engine after you got it up and running. I am considering “new” diesels that are 20 years old, never started.
 
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