Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative - Page 24 - SailNet Community

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  #231  
Old 07-20-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

I just read this entire thread.

Very nice job PorFin.

Even though my Yanmar is running fine, I am almost considering doing a deep dive project like this just due to the age (30+yrs) and not knowing if it's ever been rebuilt. Maybe during a refit period while I have the engine out during fuel tank replacement.

This thread is a valuable resource in itself. Seem the end is near so I'll look forward to its first start up. Great job on the paint job too (in and out). Looks like a new engine. Heck, it might as well be new now with all that work you've been doing.
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  #232  
Old 07-20-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

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Originally Posted by Rhapsody-NS27 View Post
Very nice job PorFin...

Heck, it might as well be new now with all that work you've been doing.
Even the factory doesn't put this kind of love into an engine. It'll be better than new.

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  #233  
Old 07-20-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

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Originally Posted by Rhapsody-NS27 View Post
I just read this entire thread.

Very nice job PorFin.

Even though my Yanmar is running fine, I am almost considering doing a deep dive project like this just due to the age (30+yrs) and not knowing if it's ever been rebuilt. Maybe during a refit period while I have the engine out during fuel tank replacement.

This thread is a valuable resource in itself. Seem the end is near so I'll look forward to its first start up. Great job on the paint job too (in and out). Looks like a new engine. Heck, it might as well be new now with all that work you've been doing.
Don't rebuild an engine that is running fine - it's expensive and time consuming even if it is satisfying.

Wait until it's needed.
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  #234  
Old 07-28-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Don't rebuild an engine that is running fine - it's expensive and time consuming even if it is satisfying.

Wait until it's needed.
That certainly is one way to look at it.
Another way is to figure that at 30 years something is likely to fail.

If he waits for it to fail it might do so at the time he needs it most. The chance is high that he will loose the season at best or loose the boat or worse depending on what kind of sailing he does.

I am interested in knowing how much a rebuild costs doing the work ones self.
The OP sounds like a professional however maybe not everyone would have such good results.
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  #235  
Old 07-28-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

The other advantage of "a rebuild before it's necessary" is that you become intimately familiar with your engine. The more I work on mine, the less afraid of it I am. I have more confidence that I can diagnose and fix things every time I dig deeper into the guts of it.

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  #236  
Old 07-28-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Engines seldom "break" simply from age. Instead they slowly wear out as the internal clearances increase. As long as your compression is still good and so forth, rebuilding is simply a waste.

Things can break at any time - pumps and other accessories and so forth but the basic rotating assembly is unlikely to, simply because it is old.

Preventive maintenance programs seldom extend to the complete rebuilding of engines - they are based on hours of run time and measured wear.

Even if you do everything yourself a rebuild is going to cost several boat bucks so deferring it until it is required is very desirable.

Obviously if you have an engine with many thousands of hours on it and you are planning a lengthy trip a "preventative" rebuild will be more desirable than if you simply need it for local cruising.
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  #237  
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Engines seldom "break" simply from age. Instead they slowly wear out as the internal clearances increase. As long as your compression is still good and so forth, rebuilding is simply a waste.

Things can break at any time - pumps and other accessories and so forth but the basic rotating assembly is unlikely to, simply because it is old.

Preventive maintenance programs seldom extend to the complete rebuilding of engines - they are based on hours of run time and measured wear.

Even if you do everything yourself a rebuild is going to cost several boat bucks so deferring it until it is required is very desirable.

Obviously if you have an engine with many thousands of hours on it and you are planning a lengthy trip a "preventative" rebuild will be more desirable than if you simply need it for local cruising.
While what you say may be true, PorFin has done us all a great service by documenting his rebuild so well. I know I've learned a lot. Perhaps this thread isn't the best place for a discussion on unnecessary rebuilds.... Just sayin'...

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  #238  
Old 07-28-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

I don't agree with a "one answer fits all" on this topic.

There are a lot of factors that plays into the equation.

The first one is that there might be a lot of other things that need replacing or fixing on your boat. How old is your standing rigging ? More than 15 years it is prone to fatigue failure, even more so if you sail on a lake than on long crossing as you change direction all the time.

How old are you thruhulls ? Your running rigging ?

These need preventive replacement, the engine needs maintenance.

Some engines, like the Perkins, are often better left alone as long as they run fine if they have been maintained properly. They won't suddenly die on you, unless something goes wrong which would kill a new or rebuilt engine anyway (no water, crappy fuel, burst coolant pipe ...). Other "lighter duty" or "high RPM" engines may need rebuilding on a regular basis because their bearings wear out quickly.

If you are moored or anchored most of the time just learn how to sail in and out, and the engine becomes not so crucial. To me, the engine is not the "emergency" means of moving the boat, the sails are. The engine is just a luxury that makes it a tad easier to get there and may prove to be a requirement in most marina. The only time I go into a marina, it's to get fuel or water. Mostly water as fuel lasts me 2-3 years.

If you are sailing long distance (I said sailing, not motoring) then just bring a spare kit of the required parts to rebuilt in the event you need to. Mechanics are available all around the world for most engines, it is the parts that are a little harder to get.

If you get this done by a professional, it will cost the same now that it would if you have to get it rebuild out there, in fact probably cheaper out there.

If you plan on doing it yourself, you have to be very good at this or else you may make it worse than it was, and then need a pro to save your a..

I see Porfin as a pro, he knows what he is doing, and will do a better job than most pros. Even then, it is now august and the boat is not in the water!

When this thread started I was all excited about getting mine rebuilt as a preventive measure, and I have a fair bit of experience with rebuilding cars and trucks engines. But after discussing this with some Perkins mechanics (some in North America, many in the Caribbeans), they all geared me towards ordering a kit to rebuild the beast whenever it needs it, which might not be before many years. For about 1K$ you get everything you need, but no dirty hands.

If it runs smooth, cool, has good power and does not smoke, there is no need to rebuild it. Even if it has some of these symptoms, it might not require a rebuilt but some other maintenance. Make sure all hoses are up to the task, that the cooler is clear, and that the oil is changed regularly, and it may pretty well go for 10K hours+. Mine is 24 years old but has 4700 hours on it, barely broken in ;-). A lady in Germany has just brought her VW golf TDI to the shop because the odometer stop functioning ... at 999,999 km. It was all original, still running fine. Diesels are good if the are treated properly.

So listen to SloopJohn.
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  #239  
Old 07-28-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Medsailor,

I fully agree, Porfin has done a fantastic job and I will save these pages as pdf for when I have to do mine! But Porfin did his because he had some troubles with the engine if I recall well.

Agreed also that this is not the place to discuss the "rebuild or not" topic. Won't do it again ;-)

Really looking forward to the next chapter !
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  #240  
Old 07-29-2013
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Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

another week, another bump...

come on PF, we're dying for an update....
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