Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative - Page 4 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
 Not a Member? 

Diesel This is a new forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


Like Tree80Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 12-27-2012
PorFin's Avatar
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
PorFin is on a distinguished road
Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

A little more background on this engine.

Based on the engine serial number, this engine began its life in 1987. Our Vagabond 39 is an '85, so chances are better than good that this was a replacement engine installed at some point. Since its also got a couple of layers of blue paint, I'm also guessing that it's been rebuilt at some point along the way as well.

We've run this engine a fair amount since we bought the boat in 2008. We completed America's Great Loop, with many, many hours of engine only propulsion.

Because of a persistent oil consumption issue, as well as suffering from typical Perkins leakiness, I decided to pull it out of the boat and give it a look see. Based on my observations during tear-down, I consider it absolutely worth keeping.


So, now the story can proceed... Comments, suggestions, and humorous additions are more than welcome

_____________________

Chapter 4: The Water Pump (a Postmortem Report.)

Well, I knew that my good luck was destined to run out at some point...

I had a suspicion that my water pump was overdue for attention, and since I'm taking everything else apart I decided to tear it down as well.

As you can see, it was a dirty mess. That said (and even though the rust/corrosion on the case was humming a different song at me) I didn't think that it was failing. I've never noticed any drainage from the weep hole, never seen any coolant in the bilge, and I've never had to add lots of coolant in the header tank since it's always remained at a trusty, visible level.





The disassembly began with removal of the pulley, which is a hell of a lot easier said than done. These puppies are pressed onto the shaft, and without a spline or key they rely solely on friction. As you might guess, the force required to get the pulley on is substantial -- here's what the manual says concerning replacement:



You may also surmise (and you'd be right) that removing it ain't easy either.

After I chased out the threaded holes in the pulley, I set up a harmonic puller:





I worked my way up though the applied force arsenal: combo wrench, combo wrench with a cheater bar, big honking adjustable wrench, Milwaukee impact driver -- no joy whatsoever. I was getting concerned...

I then broke out the heaviest gun I've got:



SUCCESS!

Drove out the bearings...



After a mineral spirits bath...






Then things started to take an ugly turn.










The seals are shot, and were probably already leaking. The shaft also looks overdue for replacement. After consulting the service manual, I also am pretty sure that there's supposed to be another seal assembly between the bearings and the impeller cavity -- missing parts are usually not a good thing.

The Perkins parts manual lists a repair kit that includes the seals, shaft, and impeller, but that part number yields no returns in web searches. Parts number searches for the seals themselves also came up empty. Transatlantic Diesels advised to just go with a replacement pump, since they can't get the repair kits either.

I cleaned and prepped the pulley for paint -- if I do have to buy a new pump, I'll still have to use the original pulley.




Next Up: ROAD TRIP!

Last edited by Faster; 12-28-2012 at 02:24 PM. Reason: cleaned up post-merge
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #32  
Old 12-27-2012
erps's Avatar
the pointy end is the bow
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Conner, Washington
Posts: 6,063
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 9
erps will become famous soon enough erps will become famous soon enough
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Cool!

I needed a new shaft for a Jabsco water pump a couple years ago. I took the old one into a machine shop and had them turn out two for me. A replacement and a spare. I got two shafts for less than a new one from Jabsco. I wonder if you could have a new shaft machined? Also, if you take your parts to a bearing store, they can take measurements and provide you with both bearings and seals based on the dimensions. A person can often get seals and bearings for a fraction of the cost this way, but it takes some patience.

For cleaning up parts for painting, a little sandblaster makes quick work of it. I bought the sandblaster nozzle for $25 then bought a plastic foot locker, but a window hole in the top and screwed in a piece of plexiglass for a viewing port. I cut two holes to stick my arms through and cemented in some PVC couplings so I had something to hose clamp a couple of big rubber gloves to on the inside. For about $50 total, I have a portable sandblaster that I either set up on saw horses or on the bed or the pickup.
__________________
Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Boating for over 25 years, some of them successfully.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #33  
Old 12-27-2012
PorFin's Avatar
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
PorFin is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

erps,

Cool beans. A new water pump's gonna run about $100; I follow in your wake to rebuild the current unit as a spare.

Your portable blaster sounds all too familiar -- I've got a very similar DIY soda blasting set-up myself.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #34  
Old 12-28-2012
erps's Avatar
the pointy end is the bow
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Conner, Washington
Posts: 6,063
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 9
erps will become famous soon enough erps will become famous soon enough
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Quote:
I've got a very similar DIY soda blasting set-up myself.
I've seen the term soda blasting come up from time to time on Sailnet. I am a little embarrassed to admit that I don't know what that is. Is baking soda used instead of silica as the abrasive?
__________________
Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Boating for over 25 years, some of them successfully.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #35  
Old 12-28-2012
PorFin's Avatar
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
PorFin is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Quote:
Originally Posted by erps View Post
I've seen the term soda blasting come up from time to time on Sailnet. I am a little embarrassed to admit that I don't know what that is. Is baking soda used instead of silica as the abrasive?
Exactly that -- the soda's a much less aggressive media; works well on softer surfaces like aluminum and (for bottom paint stripping) gelcoat.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #36  
Old 12-28-2012
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,340
Thanks: 55
Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

A few cents of experience;

Taking the block & head castings to an engine shop and having them hot tanked is a bunch easier and more effective than doing it yourself - all the little passages & hidden corners get cleaned and most of the old paint gets boiled off.

Spray Nine works incredibly well on aluminium parts - cylinder head carbon just disappears after an overnight soak.

Before you replace them, have an engine shop look at your valves - they can spot face the stems if they aren't too badly worn. You'll have to get the seats reground anyway and it can be done as part of that process.

As part of that process, have them check your pistons - a set of liners and new rings will be a lot cheaper than a full rebuild kit if the pistons are still good.

It's also a very good idea to get the mains line honed to ensure they are absolutely straight, or rather, concentric.

Glass beads work extremely well for blasting parts - they come out looking like new but the process won't mar machined surfaces.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken, opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #37  
Old 01-01-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 624
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
lancelot9898 is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Speaking of cylinder liners, I was told by a diesel mechanic that long haul truckers use a heavy duty antifreeze rather than the green/yellow regular stuff that I've been using for years since the heavy duty stuff had more corrosion protection. Not knowing at the time whether my 4-108 had wet or dry liners, I removed the anti freeze and replaced it with the heavy duty stuff being careful to flush the system well. I then learned that I had dry cylinder liners and the change out was really not necessary. Don't suppose it hurt....my 2 cents.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #38  
Old 01-03-2013
PorFin's Avatar
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
PorFin is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Sorry for the apparent hiatus this thread's taken -- work is proceeding, and I'll post an update later today/tonight.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #39  
Old 01-03-2013
PorFin's Avatar
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
PorFin is on a distinguished road
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Today's Installment:

Chapter 5: Hitting the Road.

Sorry that this post has no pics -- I'll do the upload & cross-link kibuki dance in future installments.

I've been trolling the internet looking at alternatives for overhaul kits and other parts. I sent e-mails and/or made phone calls to promising leads, and here's the gist:

o Several "authorized Perkins dealers" failed to respond to e-mails to the "contact us" address on their websites.
o Foley Engines also never responded (no shock there, and frankly saved me from having to seriously consider them as a supplier.)
o I did get a response from a local Perkins outfit. They don't stock kits per se, but would send me all of the parts a la carte -- estimate was $1774 + shipping. To be fair, this also included an oil pump (at $510), but still a little steep.
o E-bay outfits have kits in the $600-$800 range.

I elected to go with the reliable Trans Atlantic Diesels. Since they are (almost) local, I decided to drive down last Friday and actually put a face to a name. Sheri Moon and I have exchanged many e-mails over the last couple of years, and while she's been exceptionally helpful I've only once actually pulled the trigger to buy a couple of minor things from them.

Besides the latent guilt, I also was interested in seeing what gems their parts boneyard might surrender. I've got a couple of parts that while relatively serviceable, could stand to be replaced.

Anyway, I took a day away from the garage to make a road trip.

In addition to the overhaul kit, I was also looking for a couple of other things:
-- Freeze plugs.
-- Expansion washers to reseat the combustion chamber inserts.
-- 10-tooth Damper plate for our Hurth HBW 100-2R gearbox. While my current one works fine, the springs are just starting to become a little loose. Since I've already got everything disassembled, it makes sense to pop a new damper on and keep the original as a spare.
-- And from the boneyard, a front plate and a timing gear cover, both of which are showing their age and aftermath of exposure. The rust damage to the timing plate is mainly cosmetic, since there's no damage to the inside or the gasket-side of the rim. The front plate, OTOH, has rust pits extending well into the area that would be under the gasket. Additionally, the bolt hole for the alternator adjusting arm has become both out of round and the arm has worn a significant divot into the face of the plate.

TAD stocks both OEM Perkins and aftermarket rebuild kits. I elected to go with an (MaxiForce) aftermarket kit, which saved me several hundred dollars.

I also picked up everything but the timing cover and the damper plate. They did have a new timing cover in stock, but that one was almost $300. A new 10-tooth damper plate was going to run me almost another $400 -- I think I need to do some more internet shopping.

All in all, I left happy and my wallet only hemorrhaging in a relatively minor way. My guilt about taking advantage of Sheri's good nature in the past has been alleviated.

BTW, on the drive back home I remembered a few things I also meant to at least check on...

Such is life.

Of course, the overhaul kit was just the initial gush of fiscal blood. The hemorrhaging will certainly continue...

Next Up: Anybody Got a Tourniquet?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #40  
Old 01-03-2013
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,340
Thanks: 55
Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Perkins 4.108M DIY Rebuild -- A Narrative

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorFin View Post
Today's Installment:

Of course, the overhaul kit was just the initial gush of fiscal blood. The hemorrhaging will certainly continue...

Next Up: Anybody Got a Tourniquet?
I'd suggest putting up a list of current replacement engines with their prices on the wall of your shop. Whenever you get some sticker shock on parts prices for your rebuild, just have a look at the list. Don't forget to add a boat buck or three to cover the incidentals for a swap to any of them.
Faster likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken, opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply

Tags
diesel , diy , engine , perkins , rebuild


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Perkins 4-108M Switch details pbanderson Introduce Yourself 4 04-05-2013 03:03 PM
Perkins 4108 Rebuild Ilenart Diesel 4 02-13-2010 11:32 PM
rebuild perkins 4-108 gavinandrebecca Gear & Maintenance 12 12-14-2007 11:41 AM
Perkins 4-108M 50HP overheating. CharlieCobra Gear & Maintenance 19 10-12-2007 12:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:43 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012